I am asking because i sometimes think, am i right in leaving the organization? God's spirit should produce in me joy, peace, kindness, goodness...etc but i find myself depressed and angry, especially toward my family who dont understand why i have chosen this road. I feel like i dont have God's spirit therefore i must be wrong in my thinking.
Anyone else think that before? How do we know that we are right and they are wrong?
To answer your question Yannis, I do not doubt that leaving was the right thing for it was not until AFTER I left that I began to feel God in my life. I did not feel peace until after I left.
Knowing the Christ is not based on whether men feel that we know him. It is the Son who reveals himself as well as the Father to us. I know that when I was in the tower, I felt that they were the mediator between God and man now I feel that Jesus is in my life and I come to the Father through him. For the first time in my life, I understand what the love of God is through our Lord and Savior and that is something that I would not trade for anything.
It is true that there are some that I miss but this does not compare with what I have gained as Paul states in scripture. He considered all things as lost when it came to Christ. This does not mean that there is not a feeling of loss and it may be very deep and I would not even guess what you are going through but remember that Jesus stated that whoever left houses and brothers and sisters and mothers would recieve many times more and eternal life. Still, it will take time to heal but the healing will come as I myself am discovering.
I miss the organization when I'm feeling "lonely."
It was social, bottom line. I behaved and people liked me. I could say the same thing about some pets I've owned.
Today I understand that if I'm feeling off-kilter, it's time to do some soul-searching. Inevitably, I find that it's something within that troubles me...something I'd try to distract myself from with another JW social encounter. Jesus never said that trying to live in two worlds would be easy. He said his yoke was light...but there's still a cross to shoulder.
“Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them.†- Henry David Thoreau
As I watch the world around me I see that the vast majority of people aren't true to themselves. The appearance of happiness, busyness, or fulfillment is, for the most part, a facade. It's all part of the false self created to deal with a world that is false. JWs have developed their particular method to deal with loneliness...so they will never learn the lesson loneliness (or any other emotion, for that matter) has to teach.
gus
I want to answer this, as it is a very touchy subject.
I need to think about it, and my answer.
I will post more later.
The short answer?
Sometimes.
For me, being an active witness is hardly "social." On the contrary, socializing for me is a very painful experience. I HAVE to undergo it to a degree just to go out in the ministry. As one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I feel that the ministry is my only point in being one in the first place.
I HATE having to go to meetings, or socializing necessary just to be out in the ministry. I can't wait to get away from other people and just enjoy the company of Jehovah, Jesus, and my little dog, Babyface. That's all I really need...a maintained relationship with Jehovah through his son, Jesus.
I had a very unpleasant experience at the ministry meeting Wednesday morning. Without getting into the gory details, I finally just left the parking lot after the ministry meeting and came back home. The two sisters assigned to my group with me as driver went to just one sister in the parking lot. She is mentally challenged and I'm still new to the area...our ministry would not have been effective or busy enough for a whole morning. So I made sure she would be taken care of and just came home.
It is a painful thing to have a mental health disease. It's more difficult for others to understand. It's easy for me to become paranoid and my terrible negative ego rears its ugly head very easily. But for me, this is all retirement life is about...the ministry. I just don't have the psyche that deals very well with popularity contests.
I'll try again next month after my anger level has gone down. In the meantime I just keep reminding myself over and over that the brothers and sisters are worth nothing in comparison to my personal relationship and service to Jehovah God!!
When it's about hang itself out to dry? When the evil slave is about to expose itself? While my true, beaten and wounded brothers have hung in so long? While I might remain to help salvage what's remaining? Why would anyone leave now? From what other vantage point would I want to see salvation of Jehovah? It's just getting interesting! (That's my short answer)
sw
When it's about hang itself out to dry? When the evil slave is about to expose itself? While my true, beaten and wounded brothers have hung in so long? While I might remain to help salvage what's remaining? Why would anyone leave now? From what other vantage point would I want to see salvation of Jehovah? It's just getting interesting! (That's my short answer)
sw
SW
I dont understand what you are trying to say. Please explain. Are you still in and happy?
SW
I dont understand what you are trying to say. Please explain. Are you still in and happy?
I'm still in. And I won't leave till I'm thrown out. Am I happy? I am happy when I'm doing God's will. But I do not expect to be happy and joyful all day long because many good people have left and still many remain who will yet be awakened—or worse, stumbled. Happiness and joy are qualities measured by what we do and whether there are positive reasons for doing them. Never is happiness attained simply as a gift.
I compare it to someone who gets married because they truly want to build a rock-solid relationship with the one they claim to love. Then there is the one who claims to possess the same kind of love but really just wants out of an unhappy home environment. In this case the need to escape is the driving force—not love. The key to happiness is therefore Love—the same enduring quality Jehovah is searching for and for which reason he sent his son. Jesus came not to escape but to complete that quest.
So, whether I am happy or not. Whether I feel joyful all day long, I will endure whatever is set before me. Besides, what prophet in all Israel was ever supported by his community? Name one faithful character in the Bible who wasn't tested alone to the limit for his faith. That's the truth.
Keep praying and reading your Bible Yannis. It will all come to you.
Love,
sw
For the most part, human beings are gregarious groupies by nature. True everybody needs some solitude and there are occasional loner types that I've always wanted to be but never succeeded. So unless you're of that type, the jw's are definitely a highly ordered social arrangement that provides structure and needed personal discipline to apply in learning all that witnesses come to know. Without the jw's I never would have become as knowledgeable about scriptural things because I'm just not a good independent student or reader. Had there not been a better alternative I never would have left the troof. Those who have left with no better alternative I have high regard for. Like leaving a job, one is always encouraged to have another one to go to before giving your current employer the pink slip. :grouphug:
:clap: Hey Yannis!! :clap:
:hug: Hows it going buddy? :hug:
I have second thoughts sometimes about going back. But then I remember Jehovah doesnt live in a box. Then I think, oh well, that was nice.
May LOVE be with you!
your bro -- beau! :friends::friends::friends:
I am asking because i sometimes think, am i right in leaving the organization? God's spirit should produce in me joy, peace, kindness, goodness...etc but i find myself depressed and angry, especially toward my family who dont understand why i have chosen this road. I feel like i dont have God's spirit therefore i must be wrong in my thinking.
Anyone else think that before? How do we know that we are right and they are wrong?
Yannis,
I was not member of JW even though i have tried. But I think I understand your predicament. I have my family in following Jesus but I still feel lonly being disciple by ourselves. Following Jesus is not peachy in this world. If you keep reading Jesus' word you will remember that it is very hard condition to follow Him. He says if we do not abondon our loved ones because of Him we are not worthy of Him. We just keep looking forward to changed world in second lives.
love, hitomi
For the most part, human beings are gregarious groupies by nature. True everybody needs some solitude and there are occasional loner types that I've always wanted to be but never succeeded. So unless you're of that type, the jw's are definitely a highly ordered social arrangement that provides structure and needed personal discipline to apply in learning all that witnesses come to know. Without the jw's I never would have become as knowledgeable about scriptural things because I'm just not a good independent student or reader. Had there not been a better alternative I never would have left the troof. Those who have left with no better alternative I have high regard for. Like leaving a job, one is always encouraged to have another one to go to before giving your current employer the pink slip. :grouphug:
Well said Freyd. I grew up as a loner and an outsider. In my youth, Jehovah’s Witnesses were the furthest from my mind. So Yannis is asking a prospective question—i.e., “Does anyone have second thoughts about leaving the Witnesses?†which may only apply to those who have already left. That doesn’t say that those who haven’t don't have an opinion.
It’s my guess that some choose to leave because they need the space to think outside the box. As Beau put it, “Jehovah doesnt live in a box.†Neither should we. But if the box happens to teach the “primary doctrine of the Christ,†then the box is good for some things—i.e., bringing us together as a community, giving us structure to learn and the collective courage to preach and teach. Now, whether one chooses to ‘press on to maturity’ inside or outside the box is strictly personal. (Hebrews 6:1)
Frankly, there are as many choices to stay or leave as there are people—which renders this question to present opinion only and nothing more. In other words, no one can judge you for what you have done, are doing, or will yet do. It is for you to judge for yourself (while there is yet time.)
Ray Franz and Ed Dunlap didn’t want to leave and yet they among the many others forced to leave possessed greater knowledge of scripture than I know of any men. But it wasn't their decision. They would have stayed and endured. Yet for them the present power structure in ‘the box’ wouldn’t allow them to return unless they compromised their beliefs. As the old saying goes: ‘Let the beatings continue until morale improves,’ except that those being beaten are the faithful.
So I will say this much. Since I was never raised a Witness, I really don’t have an opinion. I can’t imagine the WT as a structure to be raised in. I ran the gauntlet from ‘the world’ into ‘the truth’ which was to me the ‘primary doctrine of the Christ’ as taught by Jehovah’s Witnesses. From here I ‘press on to maturity,’ and try to teach my kids who were raised in ‘the box’ (even though they are adults now) what it means to make it their own outside of the box. If one of them decided to take a breather and leave for the outside world for a time, would I condemn them? Not at all. Anyone who leaves hasn’t yet had the experience I’ve had in coming in. Sooner or later, we’ll all know the perfect answer, but for now the road to happiness is a journey still to be taken and if I can render one piece of advice—box or no box, the organization has a wealth of genuine brothers and sisters who struggle daily with the same questions.
Love,
sw
:clap: Hey Dad!! :clap:
:hug: Good to see you posting again mate! Please do it more often! :hug:
Sooner or later, we’ll all know the perfect answer, but for now the road to happiness is a journey still to be taken and if I can render one piece of advice—box or no box, the organization has a wealth of genuine brothers and sisters who struggle daily with the same questions.
Love,
sw
Amen brother! The control mechanism should not be used as a blanket to cover all the individuals within it. There is only one Path to Life, and it can be walked where there is Jesus. Fortunately, Jesus is found where those who believe in him are found -- box or no box! I still have fond thoughts of my fellow slaves within the Organisation. May JAH be with all of us!
May LOVE be with you!
your bro -- beau! :friends::friends::friends::friends:
I agree wholeheartedly with this:
Sooner or later, we’ll all know the perfect answer, but for now the road to happiness is a journey still to be taken and if I can render one piece of advice—box or no box, the organization has a wealth of genuine brothers and sisters who struggle daily with the same questions.
I don't know when you "came in," Wick...but my experience appears to be somewhat similar. I "came in" shortly after I was married in 1979 when I was 27 years old. There are tons of ever-changing factors that contribute to the "chemistry" that leads to staying in or leaving the organization; as you say, "strictly personal." LOL...I would have to say that my reasons for leaving were as faulty as my reasons for joining in the first place - and then staying in for 10 years! So where does that leave me?
It's interesting that I've never regretted the experience...and now that I think I "know better," I'd give it another go if a few things were changed. But the Society wasn't created for my personal benefit, so I don't expect change is forthcoming. There are some aspects of it that I miss, not the least of which is the community. While I tend to make light of the social side of being a JW, it is it's most redeeming factor (borg-like peer pressure aside). I loved pinochle and wine and good association on Saturday nights! But I was a social person then...not so much anymore.
Ray Franz and Ed Dunlap didn’t want to leave and yet they among the many others forced to leave possessed greater knowledge of scripture than I know of any men. But it wasn't their decision. They would have stayed and endured.
That's what made them better men than I. They stood on principle and were crucified. I walked away and, for the most part, people didn't give a tinker's damn. One should be able to go back and THEN stand on principle - once he has one to stand on. But it's not in me to raise much of a stink anymore.
Still...I miss pinochle and wine on Saturday nights.
gus
Hey there Gus!! Teach me pinochle and I'll bring my Mogen David Blackberry wine!!!:drinking: