Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Matthew is facing a judicial committee tonight.

Let us pray for his wisdom, speech and the calmness that comes from Jehovah.

Matthew, you are going through some tough trials. Let these strengthen you rather embitter you.

love vicky

(doesn't mean I agree with the trinity bit, but hey I am sure I am sometimes off the wall. Love ya little brother).

Thanks so much vicky.

I know we may disagree on some issues.  But then again, our love is not demonstrated in how we deal with those who agree with us, but our love is truely shown in how we deal with those who disagree with us.  If people give you hell, give them Jesus back.

Now for my report on how the Judicial Comittee went.

Actually, there isn't much to report.

It was me in front of a panel of three elders.  The other two elders who held the first meeting were there and other elder was there too.  The new elder did all the speaking and the other two kept quiet. (Is it normal for one elder to take the lead like that?)

Basicly they started by asking what I believe doctrinaly.  So I went into an explanation of all the major Christian Doctrines: The Gospel,
Justification, the Diety of Christ, and so on.  Then began the long series of questions.  It was as if they were testing me to see if I had thought everything through or if I could be tripped up in any way.

One of the questions I can remember resulted from me saying that a
Christian be saved from any church or denomination.  Their question was, "If some of these Church teach things that are not scriptural, then why would God use them?  Why would God use an organization that doesn't teach the whole truth of the Bible?"  

My response was, "All Churches teach the same basic doctrines.  Most statements of faith from churches are very similar.  There are smaller details that have the possibility of being different in various churches.  If a church teaches something that isn't scriptural, the person or people who teach this will have to give an account before God for what they've done, as will those who have been deceived.  However, it is a Christian's responsibility to study the Bible and make sure their teachers or chruch is teaching what the Bible says. It is possible for God to use these Churches or teachers to save somebody,
and lead them to the basic doctrinal truths.  There are wheat and weeds in the field of the Body of Christ, and when the End begins the weeds will be shown for who they are."

After the endless series of questions had finished, and they were satisfied that I was firm in my convictions, they told me to go to 2 Thessalonians chapter 2.  I knew right away they were going to the "man of lawlessness" account.  The society teaches that the "man of lawlessness" is the leadership of "Christendom".  After they failed to lead me into their understanding of the scripture, they asked me how I understood the passage.  I believe it is quite possible for the man of lawlessness to be an actual person, the antichrist. Etc.

Then they asked me how I was motivated to question the society's understanding on certain scriptures.  I mentioned that it was really the NGO issue that got me searching, and curious as to the scriptural basis for what the WT teaches.   They had done some research on the NGO issue, they read the article from the guardian and viewed in as highly biased.  My point was that if a person is bitter or harsh in their presentation of an issue about the Society, you can't just reject what they are saying because they are bitter or harsh as the WT does.  You have to look passed the bitterness and harshness and see if the person has a point.  The WT would rather talk about how the world is against them, as opposed to talk about "Hey, we need to look inward. We have a problem."

Then they tried to put the guilt on me. "How is this going to make your parent's feel?  What about all those in the congregation you are disapointing, those who you've had assistance from throughout the years? ETC."

Eventually, I just closed my Bible and said, "Gentlemen, it's obvious we don't see eye to eye on many issues.   Let's agree to disagree and move on to the heart of the matter."

They replied, "Okay, Matthew, what do you want to do?"

I replied, "I can no longer be part of this organization, an organization I no longer believe in."  I then quoted Martin Luther. "My conscience is captive to the word of God. To go against conscience is neither right nor safe. I cannot and I will not recant. Here I stand. God help me."

So then we basically came to the understanding that I did not belong in the orgainization.  So I have disassociated myself. After the meeting, it was as if a burden had been lifted.

"It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery." - Galatians 5:1 NASB

"You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free . . . So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed." - John 8:32, 36 NASB

I was reminded greatly of the following account:

"Jesus said, 'I came to this world to judge, so that the blind should see and those who see should become blind.' Some Pharisees who were there with him heard him say this and asked him, 'Surely you don't mean that we are blind, too?' Jesus answered, 'If you were blind, then you would not be guilty; but since you claim that you can see, this means that you are still guilty.' " - John 9:39-41 GNT

Gads....does it ever end?

I'm sick at heart for the pain ones must endure because they don't see things the same way the WTS sees them...they are good at the coup de grace:rant:

Matt....your conviction is what we would all like to have the strength of character to do...I would dis-avow the WTS in a New York minute....but never the Father and the Son....why must they make us choose....and to top it off...it drives a wedge between family members....dear brother, I hurt for you...as I know so many here are.

Please take care of yourself

Good for you, Matt. From what I can see, you conducted yourself well. It's a learning experience, that's for sure!

Mavos :hibye:
I feel for you and your family, I really do. You did only what your concience told you, so don't be too sad about that. It will be hard, but if you stay with Jehovah and Jesus you will get the strength to cope.
Peace to you.
Sister Grateful:hug::giverose:

Hi Mavos,

You asked:

"It was me in front of a panel of three elders.  The other two elders who held the first meeting were there and other elder was there too.  The new elder did all the speaking and the other two kept quiet. (Is it normal for one elder to take the lead like that?)"

The same happened to me.  One elder took the lead and ran totally AMUCK.

But that's OKEY DOKEY, I still know what I know.

Keep strengthening your relationship with Jehovah and Jesus Christ, Mavos.  That is what is the most important.  Let Jehovah direct your steps in all matters.

Best to you

E & E

Dear brother Matt,

The Lord Jesus did not promise our journey would be easy but he did say he would be with us always and share our load.

In your walk with the Father and his dear Son I know you will have this confidence that all of us close to our Captain have.

I don't know whether or not you know this hymn I post? However the lady who wrote it knew where her support and strength was found.

At times under great stress this hymn has moved me to tears in appreciation of YHWH's love for me demonstrated in his beloved Son:


The following is from the Cyber Hymnal:
_______________________________________

Edith G. Cherry (1872-1897) Words: Edith G. Cherry, circa 1895.
Music: FINLANDIA, Jean Sibelius, 1899.

Jean Sibelius (1865-1957)

This hymn has a sad story associated with it. In January 1956, five missionaries sang it before entering the Ecuadorian jungle to bring the Gospel to the Auca Indians. Their names were Nate Saint, Ed McCully, Jim Elliott, Roger Yoderian, and Peter Fleming. After the men reached the Aucas, the Indians murdered them on the Curaray River. However, the story has a happy ending. Years later, contact with the Aucas was reestablished, and many came to Christ, including the killers, which is how first hand details of the missionaries’ deaths came to light.
One of the best known of the five martyrs was Jim Elliot. A number of his sayings are still quoted (e.g., “He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep, to gain what he cannot lose”). Elliot’s wife Elisabeth went on to considerable fame as an author and radio broadcaster. Her book Through the Gates of Splendor describes the encounter with the Aucas; its title comes from a line in this hymn.



We rest on Thee, our Shield and our Defender!
We go not forth alone against the foe;
Strong in Thy strength, safe in Thy keeping tender,
We rest on Thee, and in Thy Name we go.

Yes, in Thy Name, O Captain of salvation!
In Thy dear Name, all other names above;
Jesus our Righteousness, our sure Foundation,
Our Prince of glory and our King of love.

We go in faith, our own great weakness feeling,
And needing more each day Thy grace to know:
Yet from our hearts a song of triumph pealing,
“We rest on Thee, and in Thy Name we go.”

We rest on Thee, our Shield and our Defender!
Thine is the battle, Thine shall be the praise;
When passing through the gates of pearly splendor,
Victors, we rest with Thee, through endless days.

May God keep you in his loving care.
Your brother in Christ
Derek