Paradise Café Discussions A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

If you have left the WT how are you worshipping now? Do any here attend church? What do you do for spirtual association other than Paradise Cafe?

This is a great question,

well When I first stopped going, I clung to what I was told even thou it was in conflict to what i felt from what i read. so therfore no church or other associates.

then I went thru a I don't give a crap phase because I was destined to die anyway.

then I started to go back to what i had done previously in my life but without the Wt ideas being the primary "gauge" I started to just takes lifes lessons and learn from them. and I talked more openly about my search and my faults.

Then I was just confused and tried the best to what I knew to be the right things to do. while I still had many conversations with others about God andwhat he wants from us. I found that my "ideas" on what he wants were extreely different then others. So I kept searching going in and out of being down.

and finally i ended up figuring out that I do what I do because I feel that it is right. and until I learn otherwise I stick to it. I am still confused about many things.
But I am even more open to discuss my views right wrong or other.
I have had the most success in allowing myself to be changed to become a better person this way. I find that many people I have crossed paths with have some truth about God's ways "mind" and I take what is Good and toss the rest.

My Worship is my life style. Flawed or otherwise it is how I live that I think God is most concerned with. Life seems to be about lessons and if we figure out one, we get another one on the first ones tail. IT is all about how you handle them. The fruits of the spirit are best at helping us handle lifes challenges. and it seems to be the defining mark of a christian. and i have found many that are showing their fruits.

I am not sure if this is what u r asking but, it IS how I worship.

Micah 6:6...

"With what shall I confront Jehovah? [With what] shall I bow myself to God on high? Shall I confront him with whole burnt offerings, with calves a year old? Will Jehovah be pleased with thousands of rams, with tens of thousands of torrents of oil? Shall I give my firstborn son for my revolt, the fruitage of my belly for the sin of my soul? He has told you, O earthling man, what is good. And what is Jehovah asking back from you but to exercise justice and to love kindness and to be modest in walking with your God?"

Greetings.

gogh

Yes, but what about Heb 10:24,25? The longer i'm out the more i feel the need to associate with fellow believers which this verse seems to stress.

Total
Thanks for your expressions. Does that mean you dont have an organized way of worship? You just serve God by yourself?

A good answer , Gogh !

Jesus told us also (John 12:50 ) :
I know that His command is eternal life. So the things that I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me."

So , fulfilling His commands is worshipping Him - a way of life !

But the knowledge about His commands (wich exprime His will ) does not come automatically to our mind , we have to seek for them , as the psalmist said :
10. I seek you with all my heart;
do not let me stray from your commands.
11. I have hidden your word in my heart
that I might not sin against you.
12. Praise be to you, O LORD;
teach me your decrees.
14. I rejoice in following your statutes
as one rejoices in great riches.
15. I meditate on your precepts
and consider your ways.
16. I delight in your decrees;
I will not neglect your word.
30. I have chosen the way of truth;
I have set my heart on your laws.
31. I hold fast to your statutes, O LORD;
do not let me be put to shame.
32. I run in the path of your commands,
for you have set my heart free.
33. Teach me, O LORD, to follow your decrees;
then I will keep them to the end.
34, Give me understanding, and I will keep your law
and obey it with all my heart.
35. Direct me in the path of your commands,
for there I find delight.
36 .Turn my heart toward your statutes
and not toward selfish gain.

Psalm 119.

Thanka for sharing td!!
Under the Mosaic arrangement, worship of Jehovah was centered around routines and rituals. The Christian era should be different, but we seem to cling to the old way. Are we still trying to offer sacrifices.? Is the fruit of the lips witnessing, a formal act of worship, or should it be a reaction of our love? Does Heb. 10:24,5 mean 5 meeting a week? Do we still need to make our yearly pilgrimage to the Temple, (convention)?
Keep the Memorial, look out for orphans and widows, (all of us).
Love never fails! .............e-m

Hi Yannis

RE: "...associate with fellow believers..."

A "fellow believer" (to me) is one that offers exclusive devotion to YHWH by recommending/promoting complete trust/faith in our Master Jesus Christ. Jehovah's Witnesses (99% of my close association over the past....long time...grin), by demanding complete trust in their Governing Body (see Chapter three of Organized to Do Jehovah's Will book) detract from worshiping in spirit and truth, thus are not inciting to love and fine works via their meeting together!

Hebrews 10:29...

"How much more severe a punishment do you think that person deserves who tramples on God's Son, treats as common the blood of the covenant by which it was sanctified, and insults the Spirit of grace?" (ISV)

So called "fellow believers" insult "the Spirit of Grace" by exalting the Governing Body!!!

...

Hebrews 10:24..."And let us consider one another to incite to love and fine works,..."

This can be accomplished whenever we meet/talk with someone, can it not? ("For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst.” Matthew 18:20)

Christian love and appreciation,

gogh

My thread is not to debate what Heb 10:24,25 meant but to see what you all do for worship if with a group or by yourselves. I am not judging the merits of either one but only to help me decide what to do in line with Heb 10:24,25.

Yannis,

I am the the opposite of organized. IT takes much effort for me to show any semblance of organiztion.

But I do have structure. althou it is not so rigid so as not to flow with whatever is sent my way. I pray daily, I ponder on things constanly.

I would say that I am alone in the sense that i have not had the opportunity to find someone that lives in the same manner as I.

Yet I am never without companionship and believe it or not I can bring up God and have discusions with pretty much anyone. at a mall, at work, in a bar it makes no difference people will at the very least give me the courtesy of their time. The diff is i only offer things to think about. people can make up their own minds , I have no need to force them to see things or not see.. I am sure GOD wants only people who want to do the right thing. "right now" anyway. My search has me beliveing simply that if we server because we LOVE Him and Jesus and see that they really just want the best for all of creation things work out. "not the way we think but the way they should"
iIt is my obligation to always put forward the fruitage, thou I fail many times it is the only obligation I have. as EM said take care of widows and orphans.. IT goes beyond that nowadays since at least here in the USA U have to almost refuse help to be completly destitute. But it is more of a challenge to help people on a spiritual level. WE need to first help in the physical, then we help with the spiritual. it cannot work any other way.

Peace to you brother, Life is a pleasure when you see the potential that GOD sees in us.

Unlike some, I did not leave and have no place to go. In fact I left the Witnesses because I found what I believe is better, Began studying with a small class of Bible Students in my area.

However, my fellowship is not limited to them, I have Bible Studies three nights a week, plus my association on the Net!

RR

Come on RR,, we know it's just so you could grow a beard..

I do a great deal of studying on my own, I study once a week with a small group of Bible Students (including my family), I discuss the scriptures and scriptural topics with others at work willing to converse, and I enjoy sharing with others on the net (like now).

As New Priests living a Inner Kingdom.
The 3rd Heaven, New Zion.
How do we worship in such an isolated position.
without getting back into the old thinking and routines.
How do we lead people to love King Jesus?
With fasting and prayer.
Using our own cistern of Holy Water.
Aloneness with Jehovah God. Is a one on one isolated position.
Use it.
"Whoever governs fairly and well,
who rules in the Fear-of-Jehovah,
Is like first light at daybreak
without a cloud in the sky,
Like green grass carpeting earth,
glistening under fresh rain." 2 Samual 23:3,4

But the Governing Body seem to be at a loss for what to do next.
It is insanity to do more of the same and expect a different result.
They don't want to appear off the wall. They have to stick to their traditions.
We can’t change them. They have to follow that path set in motion by generations before we were born.
But Brothers and Sisters our Calling
Will make us look at odds at what we have been taught at the Kingdom Hall .
We are looked at as peculiar and different.
Do you think it is easy for us to post our thoughts and prayers in a new understanding? We would love to hide ourselves under our bed sheets and not discuss anything than be branded strange and shunned.
But Once reborn We can’t stop talking about it . The Holy Spirit calling is so Strong inside of us.
Get the brain, and, most importantly, the Holy Spirit juices, flowing.
If this forum is a representation of a Body of King Jesus Christ and I believe that it is, then people will see Jesus being born out in the love your paradise Cafe is sharing with each other. The Holy Spirit is caring for it.
If we are a representation of a righteous man making a new covenant with Jehovah God.
In Jehovah’s Eyes the New Covenant becomes in effect and valid as we have died in our earthly position and have been reborn in a spiritual position.
Our desires and goals have changed from being focused on building up safeguards and security for our retirement and our children in this world to building up our hearts and desires on how on earth Jehovah is going to rule and govern such a stubborn species as ours.
We strive to touch the core of one's soul and awaken in them the dormant hunger to see the face of Jehovah God. Help you build your relationship in the Spirit sense.
You are already versed in the earthly sense as you wouldn’t have made it here.

A quote of Brother Beau
“We become awakened to SEE-ing our TRUE NATURE!!”

Help one another build each others spirit side up by showing it.
Don’t be afraid of showing it. In doing so you re-inforce your faith
Post on the net.

Amen in faith
Cc

Hi Yannis,
I felt pretty lost and alone, still do alot, but after I felt I could no longer go to meetings I learned that worship comes from inside the heart, I like to think I can worship Him anywhere and everywhere I go. He is my Father and he is teaching me as I go along His path, like in Deuteronomy 6....He speaks to me as I......"sit in your house and when you walk on the road and when you lie down and when you get up. And you must tie them as a sign upon your hand, and they must serve as a frontlet band between your eyes".

I sort of miss the friends, but I felt my spirit slowly being crushed dying there, I will never go back there. The freedom in Christ is worth more than anything any church or kingdom hall has to offer.
When your alone with Jehovah your God, through Jesus he takes over and guides you on the path, helps remove the stones along the way and blesses you with some very special people in your life and He will fill up any empty space from the things left behind. He always gives you what you need, just ask. It helps to have a friend to share spiritual insites and love and encourage one another, it only takes 2 .."For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst.” Matthew 18:20


Brother CC,
thank you for all your sharing and helping us to awaken to the Light!

"This is what the [true] God, Jehovah, has said, the Creator of the heavens and the Grand One stretching them out; the One laying out the earth and its produce, the One giving breath to the people on it, and spirit to those walking in it: “I myself, Jehovah, have called you in righteousness, and I proceeded to take hold of your hand. And I shall safeguard you and give you as a covenant of the people, as a light of the nations, [for you] to open the blind eyes, to bring forth out of the dungeon the prisoner, out of the house of detention those sitting in darkness."~ Isaiah 42:5-7

Much LOVE,
Sparrow