Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Hi again Terra Nova :hibye:

We all choose what we'll believe. :thinking:
I personally, after long indepth study and a much closer look, found the WT/JWs to be no better than some others and that my professing them to be the best was false.:redface:
I sill believe the basics, like God doesn't torture people in Hell, just as I did before I decided to go along with the JWs, but I found that there are other churches that teach the basics also. Here's a commentary I recomend http://reslight.net/armageddon.html
"...Those who remain children of wrath will suffer destruction during what is often called "the Battle of Armageddon." Does this mean that the majority of earth's present billions will go down in eternal destruction with no hope of recovery?...."

Now on your thread title questions
Exorcisms: What Are They? Who Should Perform Them?
According to what I've read exorcisms consist of many different types and some use of different objects as talismans like the use of so-called holy water and a crucifix. While others use only prayer. It is my understanding that in the Catholic church certain priest have to be trained and authorized for it.
I personally think that the demons are mostly just playing games with the ones doing exorcisms. Though, according to what I've read, many of them get quite violent. Why would a demon pretend to be exercised? To make people think that certain people have something that they don't really have; that is power from God. I suspect that the demons get a big evil laugh out of it.
Then there is what Jesus said; "When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth [it] empty, swept, and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last [state] of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation. " MT 12:43-45
Jesus had the power given to him by his father and Jesus passed some of that on to his apostles and they in turn pass some on. I see this power as getting thinner and thinner through the passings. Just like Moses had power and when his father in law suggested to have some men help him God told him that he would take some of his power and give it to them.
My guess is things are going to get much worse; that we are going to hear of/see much more of demonic manifestations. As people are getting into and doing more and more of the things that we are told in the Bible not to do.

God bless,
Sincerely, PPCM

Ephesians 5:3...

" Let fornication and uncleanness of every sort or greediness not even be mentioned among YOU,..."

Re: "...uncleanness of every sort..."

Demons are unclean. Why mention them?

...

Hi PPCM: I agree with what you said. I also believe that exorcisms are just a game that demons play on people. However, unlike most games, this game is “Real”, real in the sense that those possessions are real, and the deliverance from those possessions is also real, even though we can conclude from a biblical point of view that the people who perform those exorcisms cannot by any means have God’s approval.

Gogh: The reason why I decided to talk about demons is because they are real, they hate you and they are out to get you in every conceivable way.

Gus recommended us a great website that deals with them. After reading some of the things in that website I’ve begun to suspect that perhaps there is also a demon in me that keeps me from being the person that I really want to be. You should check it out. You will find it very interesting.

http://net-burst.net/demons/index.htm

James 4:7...

"Subject yourselves, therefore, to God; but oppose the Devil, and he will flee from YOU. Draw close to God, and he will draw close to YOU."

...

Hi Gogh,

Some say ignorance is bliss, others say ignorance is no excuse.

While it is true we all are here to seek out Jehovah and Jesus and spiritual upbuilding, we also are aware that we are living in a satanic world and these are the end times.

As oft been repeated, everybody is at different degrees of faith and reminders of the evils we face daily can help strengthen our resolve to stick close to Jehovah
.
If a brother or sister moved to our city or neighborhood, I'm sure we would be eager to tell them of all the good things about it, such as the parks , restaurants, zoo, etc. Would we not also warn them of the dangers such as prostitutes, drug dealers, unclean things ? Would we not keep them apprised of new dangers?

Proverbs 27:11,12
11 Be wise, my son, and make my heart rejoice, that I may make a reply to him that is taunting me.

12 The shrewd one that has seen the calamity has concealed himself; the inexperienced that have passed along have suffered the penalty.

brotherly love,
James

Hi Terra Nova :hibye:

".....this game is “Real”, ..."
Yes it is; and people should be aware of the danger.
It is not easy to grasp though.
And things that are uncomfortable still may need to be discussed.

SoldierOfJah :hibye:

Nice signiture link Thanks


Hi James, :hibye:

VERY nicely put! I wish I could have done so.


God bless, PPCM_

I have been involved in 50 excorcisms both in the UK and in Africa. I prefer the term #deliverance' to excorcism and demonisation to possession. My modus operandi and understanding is based on scripture and I deliberately seperate my experiential knowledge (which I hold lightly) and my baseline scripture understanding.

I've found that there is 'personality' craftiness and uncleanness at work in these things but Jesus is stronger!!

Welcome byz.

Were you successful?
What made you believe they were real and not medical such as mental illness, epilepsy... or self delusional or drugs or a deliberate deception?

James

Hi

For most there was 'success' some were dramatic in very public places, in meetings, bus stations and the impact was immediate and dramatic, one of my early ones was actually videod!!

I was aware of some 'co-operation' from the patient occasionally and also some non co-operation too. It is difficult for me to know the eact answer to some of the points you raise as I am not a medical person although they did attend sometimes.

I do so try to avoid 'leading' the individual or provoking excessive 'manifestation' but if you had been there you would not have doubted the effectiveness.

I rely on long term 'life change' as the ultimate 'result' but on the day the clear sense of release is usually obvious.

It isnt easy though and I've found it exhausting and dont encourage it even now and often recognise 'symptoms' but feel I must walk away for MY health!!

forgot to mention that in Zambia where I go there are many ex JWs who left the organisation because 'the JWs couldnt get the demons out'. 'Spiritual' thi ngs are much more on the surface out there and are more readily observable and are less hidden under western disguises.

“I forgot to mention that in Zambia, where I go, there are many ex JWs who left the organisation because 'the JWs couldnt get the demons out'. 'Spiritual' things are much more on the surface out there and are more readily observable and are less hidden under western disguises”.

Hi Byz: This topic is very unpleasant and makes us feel very uncomfortable. I had my first real life experience with witchcraft when I was seven years old. I saw with my own eyes a little baby being cured of something that we call “Mal de Ojo”. Mal de ojo is a spell that some people cast over their enemies by just looking at them. Yes, it may sound unbelievable but some people have the power to kill you by just looking at you.

I remember how doctors tried to cure this little baby - my cousin- and each of them failed; they just couldn’t figure out what was wrong with him.

Out of desperation we went to see a “Healer”-witch- . She looked at my cousin and said that a spell had been cast over him. She did some weird stuff and “Cleaned” the child with some herbs. After that she passed an egg over his body and sang a song in a language I couldn’t understand.

However, the most remarkable and unforgettable thing about this experience is that after that, she filled a glass with water and broke the egg. Then I saw with my own eyes how the egg yolk turned into an eye; the most evil eye I have ever seen in my whole life.

I was never able to forget that, and that was my first experience with the paranormal.

Later on I became a JW and embraced the so called “True religion”. Unfortunately, I was never able to understand why they were so negligent in this regard, and never paid any attention to peoples’ needs regarding their struggle against demonic possessions, spiritism and the occult.

It is a difficult and unpleasant subject, and I dont tend to mention any details much but 'deliverance' is a key issue in proclaiming and demonstsrating 'the kingdom' see Mthw 12v28.

I once sang a song to a demonized person who was initially wailing and screaming, the song was sung 'in tongues' and then I told them that the God of heaven had sent me to sing this song of release and freedom.

It was very dark and a bit scary but I sang, the perosn fell to thier knees and after kissing my hand 'went on thier way rejoicing'....... I was pinching myself all night after that, it felt very 'new testament'.

Humorously...... two of us were in full flow with an individual who was roaring and rolling around , and the local police had been called to see what was happening 'up at the Church', I saw the blue lights flashing heard the door opening and after a few moments I wondered why they hadnt come to see us, but the police car was tearing down the drive at great speed!!! I'm sure they told some tales back at the station!!

Its not all heavy, it can be a little humerous too!!

I just want it to be understood to any reading here that the act mentioned is divination and is against GOD's word to us.

"..... various practices involved -- magic, divination, sorcery, supposed communication with the dead, prophesying by stars, fortune telling – as described in the Bible are all forms of spiritualism, and could be considered by the word witchcraft, and those who practice these make use of the power given to the angels that sinned. These angels, the head of whom is Satan the father of the lie, do much to make themselves appear to be good, and make it appear that to disobey Yahweh is actually the right and good thing to do, as Satan did with Eve. – Isaiah 5:20; Malachi 3:15; Luke 11:35; 16:15; 2 Peter 2:18,19.

Satan will cast out Satan in order to make himself and his works appear to be good rather than evil. Even most miracles done in Jesus' name are not recognized by Jesus, thus are of Satan. In other words, Satan is divided against himself, and his house will soon fall. -- Matthew 7:22,23; 12:24-27; 24:21,22,43; Revelation 3:10....." This quote is from http://reslight.net/witchcraft.html I recommend reading the whole commentary.

Sincerely, PPCM