Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Hi All... I have a question about Daniel....

Here we go...

"From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days!" - Daniel 12:11,12 NASB

Okay... so 3.5 years is 1260 days.

Why is there 30 more days in the 1290 days?

Why are there 45 more days in the 1335 days?

Here are my thoughts but these are just my thoughts and I'm not sure how accurate this understanding is.

Could Daniel 12 be a reference to the midpoint of the tribulation (if it's a seven year tribulation) or alternatively the begining of the tribulation (if it's a 3.5 year tribulation)? The additional days in Daniel 12 may include the time at the end for the judgment of the nations (Matthew 25:31-46) and time for the setting up of Christ's millennial kingdom (Revelation 20:4-6).

What do you think? How is this text to be understood?

Thanks,

Matt

“From the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up” would be a time period of 1,290 days (years). The “abomination that maketh desolate” actually began before Justinian’s day. That doctrine started in the 300s, but
it was “set up” by Emperor Justinian when he gave Papacy its power as the Man of Sin in AD 539. Two things happened: (1) The daily merit of Christ’s sacrifice was taken away by the substitution of the doctrine of the Mass. (2) Papacy was established as a contending power.

The little man-child was caught up to “heaven” and became as (the false) Michael (Rev. 12:5,7–10). A war in heaven ensued, and the dragon was cast out. In effect, Justinian opened the door to Papacy by recognizing the pope as the head of the Christian Church, even
though the Eastern Orthodox Church was right in Constantinople. What Justinian probably thought was that by throwing out this bone, he would be unifying the eastern and western divisions of the empire, Constantinople and Rome being the respective headquarters. But
instead Papacy was strengthened so that it became its own entity. The tables were turned.

No longer was Papacy the servant of the government; instead the government became the servant of Papacy. Thus AD 539 was a very critical period of time, for the starting point of the 1,260 days, the 1,290 days, and the 1,335 days are all that same year. From that point we add the prophetic time periods.

539 + 1,260 = the year 1799
539 + 1,290 = the year 1829
539 + 1,335 = the year 1874

In 1829 the Millerite movement began. William Miller, who had an interesting ministry, understood the 1,260 and the 1,290 days, but he expected the Lord to return visibly from 1844 to 1846.

Dan. 12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. The 1,335 days mark the beginning of the parousia, our Lord’s secret presence, the return of
our Lord to earth’s atmosphere in 1874.

It is almost impossible to believe that major end-time
doctrines of the Protestant church began in the minds of a
couple of Jesuit priests, one of which wrote under an assumed
name . . . and even more unbelievable, that those views were
amplified by the supposed vision of a fifteen year old girl who
had only been a Christian for a year, dabbled in the occult and
had a documented levitation.5 But the historic record of the
origin of Dispensational Eschatology is unassailable.6
Many seminary students have tried to reconcile the plain
assertions of Scripture with the dispensational position, but to
no avail. Eventually, the future pastors just accept Ribera-
Lacunza-Macdonald-Darby-Scofield and after being ordained
go forth and happily teach this false doctrine to their flocks.
Rarely do they question the quivering foundation upon which
they are trying to build: the questionable opinions of the Jesuits
who started it all.7
Many evangelical churches still champion the seven-year
view, but it is so counter to the plain statements of the Bible
itself – particularly the last trumpet – that one wonders how it
has managed to command so many ardent supporters . . .
2Ti 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure
sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to
6
8 The futurist view, contrived by the Jesuit priest Ribera in 1591AD, was the
foundation for Lacunza’s “tribulation” musings. Ribera theorized a future
antichrist, a rebuilt Babylon and a Jewish temple in Jerusalem at the end of this
age. The Praeterist view, conceived by the Jesuit priest Alcaqzar in 1614AD,
claimed just the opposite - that the book of Revelation was fulfilled by the fall of
Jerusalem in 70AD. Both views were in opposition to the linear historic view that
until then had been the generally accepted position of the true church. Those two
innovative Jesuit positions succeeded in excluding fifteen centuries of unsavory
Roman Church history from the scrutiny the Bible prophecies that showed the
Roman Church hierarchy to be at least one face of Rev 17’s “whore of Babylon.”
For documentation, read Michael de Semlyen, All Roads Lead To Rome? (Gerrards
Cross, Bucks, UK, Dorchester House Publications, 1991) p. 202.
themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn
away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
We are very near the end of all things. The Jews are home
in Israel now, just as the Lord predicted they would be in
countless Scriptures. Because of the many prophecies that have
been fulfilled in the last sixty years, we can now state
conclusively that all Scriptures used to formulate the sevenyear-
tribulation view, including DanielÂ’s 70th week, have been
fulfilled. The Ribera-Lacunza-Irving-Macdonald-Darby-Scofield
dispensational end-time scheme just isnÂ’t true. And since it isnÂ’t,
maybe we should look at DanielÂ’s prophecies again to see if we
can find out what they are really all about

I think the numbers fit quite well into the ideal lunar Jewish calendar, which had 30 days in every month. Every two or three years an additional 30-day month would be added as a leap-month.

I believe the days are counted from Chislev 15, 168 BCE, when the abomination of desolation (the idol of Zeus) was set up in the Temple.

The 2,300 Evening and Mornings

"Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said to the one that spoke, 'For how long is the vision concerning the continual burnt offering, the transgression that makes desolate, and the giving over of the sanctuary and host to be trampled under foot?' And he said to him, 'For two thousand and three hundred evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary shall be restored to its rightful state.'"

The 2,300 evening and mornings = 1150 evenings and 1150 mornings, thus 1,150 days.

The period covers Chislev 15, 168 to Chislev 25, 165 BCE, when the temple was rededicated.

First year - 13 months (leap year) x 30 days = 390
Second year - 12 months x 30 days = 360
Third year - 13 months (leap year) x 30 days = 390
Chislev 15-25 = 10
---------------------
Total = 1150 days

The 1,290 Days

"And from the time that the continual burnt offering is taken away, and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days." (Dan 12:11)

The period covers Chislev 15, 168 to Iyyar 15, 164 BCE, when Judah Maccabee returned from victory over the Seleucids.

First year - 13 months (leap year) x 30 days = 390
Second year - 12 months x 30 days = 360
Third year - 13 months (leap year) x 30 days = 390
Chislev 15-Iyyar 15 = 150
---------------------
Total = 1290 days

The 1,335 Days

"Blessed is he who waits and comes to the thousand three hundred and thirty-five days. " (Dan 12:12)

The period covers Chislev 15, 168 to Sivan 30, 164 BCE, when king Antiochus Epiphanes died.

First year - 13 months (leap year) x 30 days = 390
Second year - 12 months x 30 days = 360
Third year - 13 months (leap year) x 30 days = 390
Chislev 15-Sivan 30 = 195
---------------------
Total = 1335 days

Farhat Zubair,

The proestant church is widely vairied in it's eschatology. Dispensational Premilleniumism has only been around for maybe 150 years, not the 400-500 years this guy says. And it is now slowly on a decline as people see that it doesn't quite make sence. There is not definiate eschatology associated with Protestantism as each denomonation or church has their own view of th end times. Granted Dispensational Premilleniumism is the most popular because of the Left Behind series and Hal Lindsey, not all in Protestantism believe that it is a correct understanding.

Eschatologicaly, I am have a more Historical Premillenialist view, though I do have a bit of a Preteristic interpretation of passages like Matthew 24, Luke 21, Mark 13 Etc.

Now if you can understand the terms I have used, you deserve a medal!

Thanks,

Matt

Hello Everybody

These numbers given us have driven Bible scholars nuts for millenia.

It's clear that a period of 42 months commences at the time the beast rises from the abyss. Before that though, the Anglo-American world power must fall, followed by a period of anarchy the world has never seen. The Great Tribulation actually starts before the specified 42 months. It is a possibility that the total time of denunciation for the earth lasts for the 7 prophetic years of the two visiona in Daniel, one of Nebuchadnezzar's illness and the other of the rootstock of the chopped down tree being bound up.

To me, the 1335 days represents an additional 45 days after the conclusion of the 1290 days. I believe it is during this time that the UN Supergovernment declares an end to WWIII and claims "true peace and security" as per the prophecy of Paul. Since the "sudden destruction" upon them is as "birth pangs upon a pregnant woman, I suspect that the 45 days is all the time they have to gloat before Christ and his angels blow them off the face of the earth, as we would blow dust off an old book that has been lying around. That's the day we're all anxiouosly awaiting, therefore we will be truly "happy and holy".

Your brother Lou

Wow, Jesh! Anglo-American world power? WWIII? UN Supergovernment? Where do you get these identifications from?

This is a topic I believe Watchman is correct on. I think it makes sense to view this as being fulfilled in the future during the Tribulation. I'm no longer getting all wrapped up in prophetical interpretations, however. There's just no way to know for sure.

:cheekkiss:

Lou, I did enjoy your ideas...

I agree, the rise of the beast is during the Great Trib. And Babylon must fall.. during that time.. I also think the GT is 7 years long.

I also like your idea of the 1335 days as being after GT. I think it will be Jesus that will declare the end to WWIII, though. I believe the P & S cries are God's people, begging him for P & S. And then God answers their cries..by responding.. to the wicked..thru Jesus.
Also I don't believe neither Jesus nor the 144,000 will blow anyone away physically. Jesus destroys with his lips and the spirit of his mouth, and the 144,000 have beaten their weapons into plows.

I think the wicked will self destruct and won't have God's protection when trouble hits.. I have some ideas, of how they may do this..

comments?

Hi Matt
Sorry for being late

The guy whose research I sited as you probably know is Skolfield. I
was fascinated by his research. The crux of his message is that the 2573 years of Jerusalem's literal city by goims began just after Nebuchadnezzar blinded and took Zedekiah to Bablon and thery ran right to the dot in the year 1967. When after nearly two thousand five hundred years Jerusalem came under the Jewish control.

As for 1290 days he says
"Now please, let us not try to make a New Testament doctrine out of this Old Testament Scripture. The addressees are clearly defined. It is in Hebrew, to the Jews. It is about the Holy Land while Gentile powers were ruling there. Context refers to thy people (Dan 12:1).

Daniel was a Jew and the prophecy was given to him, so it is to and about the Jews during the Time of the Gentiles. There is no reason to believe the Lord was telling Daniel about an abolition of sacrifices that might take place 2500 years later, at the end of the Christian EraThis is how Daniel could understand the vision.

God gave the 1290-day vision fifty years after the regular sacrifices had been abolished. Looking back, Daniel could see that nothing of any special significance had taken place just 1290 ordinary days after their abolition, so he knew the Lord was speaking of some-thing other than ordinary 24 hour days. Daniel then put together when sacrifices were abolished with the definition for prophetic days given by the prophet Ezekiel (Eze 4:6 I have appointed thee each day for a year.) and saw that the abomination was still 1290 years in his future.

What could that terrible thing be? Daniel could not know, but we can because 1290 years since the sacrifices were abolished have already passed. They were over in 688AD.2 So what happened in 688AD? Well, from 685 to 705 AD, the muslim khalifa, Abd el malik ibn marvan built a memorial to Muhammad, the Dome of the Rock, on God's temple mount! Thus, we now have a positive identification:

The Dome of the Rock is the Abomination of Desolation!
that temple mount of God Most Holy was made spiritually desolate over 1300 years ago and it remains so today.

The Jews cant offer sacrifices to the Lord on His holy mountain while that structure to THE false prophet remains there. That is why there is
such an interest among conservative Jews about tearing it down. It is no secret to the Jewish Rabbis that the Dome of the Rock is an abomination that makes desolate.

Now dont forget 688 AD and the Dome of the Rock. We are
going to run into that date, and Islam, again and again. And
remember 583BC, too. Both dates are important."

Skolfield says that the inside inscription on the dome of rock which was specially designed by the Khalifa is a surah from the Quran which says that "allah was not begotten by someone neither did he beget anyone it is a blasphemy".

Now this is nothing but a direct attack and negation of the Ransom of Chirst and the foundation of Christianity. and no one but one who is oposed to Christianity and its founder can do it Skolfield says that Muhammad worked as an unwitting agent of Satan to opose Jesus.

Its interesing that the Khalifa thought that he was building the dome on the site of the most holy but God fooled him and instead he built it on what was known as the court of the gentiles, he proves it with pictures.

so the disgusting thing (the dome of the rock) is built upon the wing of the temple adjacent to where the most holy of the actual temple used to be. Remember both Daniel and Revalation say that the courtyard has been given to the nations and they will tample the holy city for 42 months seven times.

There is lots of exciting things in the book by Skolfield "The False Prophet" its a must read for all who are students of Bible prophecy.

God bless

Farhat Zubair

To throw a spin on this,  well maybe not.  but this is my point of veiw so far..

The beast rising starts the great trib.. and it lasts the 3.5 x2.
in the middle of this period a very significant event happens..
I currently beleive that to be the death of the two witnesses. "whomever they turn out to be"  At this point I think the sealing is done. and the rest of the tribulation go on into the Day of our lord.. hence the counting of days...

TD     "this is just my current beleif" it is subject to being wrong.

Paul said "Whenever it is they are saying "true peace and security", then instant destruction will be instantly upon them, as birth pangs upon a pregnant woman".

I understand Paul to be referring here to the Antichrist New World Order, in both the "they" and "them".  Also, since my last post, I've learned a few things (yes I'm still learning, it never ends) and the truth is that the Illuminati have everything mapped out.  WWIII will involve nuclear bombs, so it cannot be a long drawn-out war, and their plan is to get it done in 13 weeks.  Before the beast can rise out of the abyss, the Anglo-American world power has to suffer it's death stroke, after which there will be a period of anarchy worldwide.  Then the UN rises out of the abyss as the NWO, and create "order out of chaos", which is already their motto, and appear to be the world's savior.  At that time he will start wiping out religions, beginning with the "holy place".  Once all of Babylon the Great is destroyed, the Antichrist is in power, with his New Age Religion, the worship of Lucifer and/or himself.  Of course, his reign lasts 42 months.  Since 1335 days represents an additional 75 days after the 1260 days, the significance of the 1290 days is anybody's guess right now.  But Jehovah has made it clear that the prophecies will be opened up to our understanding during the "time of the end".

As far as Armageddon, I think its pretty clear from the scriptures that there will be destruction by fire from Jehovah himself, and he has also said that he will turn them against each other. It is true that the Antichrist will have already done significant damage on his own, but I can't imagine Jehovah doing anything less than making a major statement to sanctify his name before the world.

Hi all
I hope your all still here,that made comments on this thread .Every contribution was great. So please stay with this.
Helpful to know : Current events and the scriptures are complimenting each other in regards to NWO, or the Eighth king.

All you quests please come on in , every little thought counts

This thread was started in 2007,

Mavos that bit of history that you posted in regards to the Dome was very interesting. Now only if we can count on him being right with the historical accounts .
There was a twenty year gap there in regards to the Dome, do you think we can allow that time for the building. ?
I guess we can I just don't trust men that don't know the real Truth , to explain Bible history, but I'm sure if that's all we have it will do.

Can your thoughts follow mine so far ?
I found this thread because I am searching for DAYs .

I can see why this thread laid dormant for these last few years, because , ( my thoughts ) it wasn't time for it..

I am not going to say too much ,as I would like to hear other opinions or additions staying with this subject.

From what I read here, I can see there is going to be a literal and a spiritual fulfillment,
with
literal Israel that haven't accepted Christ, along with the Israel of God( spiritual Jew).or True Christians.. The NWO goal will to rid the earth of both parties .

Daniel 9:27 (Amplified Bible)
27 And he shall enter into a strong and firm covenant with the many for one week [seven years]. And in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and offering to cease [for the remaining three and one-half years]; and upon the wing or pinnacle of abominations [shall come] one who makes desolate, until the full determined end is poured out on the desolator.

Thank you Mavos for this wonderful thread.
susanna:grouphug:

My comments here are repetitive or reflective of some of the other comments in this thread, but I’m finding that the more I read and re-read these passages in Daniel and read the comments and explanations of various ones, the more the terms themselves start to stick – and the next step is – the terms begin to jell into something appearing patterned and meaningful. I’ve read these passages so many times that I can rap them off without hardly looking. No, this doesn’t mean that I have an accurate and complete understanding of what the passages actually signify; just that I know where they are in the stream of the book of Daniel. But that’s the start I believe of bigger things - at least the seed bed of ideas such as the ones I submit here, so here goes one more time:

Observations
a. There are 3 time periods coded into Daniel 12, that lie within the context of a longer time period.
b. Each of these 3 time periods are yet future.
c. These 3 time periods happen at the end of Satan’s system of things.

When do the 3 time periods start?
“And from the time that the constant [feature] has been removed and there has been a placing of the disgusting thing that is causing desolation…”

The “constant feature” (exactly what this “feature” is I’m not totally certain) - is brought to a halt at the half of the week, which “week” is the seventieth week of the prophecy of the 70 weeks – which week is yet future. It seems clear that these time periods are yet future, since the angel tells Daniel to make secret the words until the time of the end, and since Daniel 2:44 clearly speaks of the time of the end of earthly kingdoms, the assumption of yet future seems correct.

The 1290 days period
Per Daniel, from the midpoint of the 70th week, which is 3.5 years from the beginning of the 7 years long 70th week of years, the 1290 day period begins, as does the 1335 day period – as does the final 1260 day period of time times and half a time. Why the 1260 day or 3.5 year period? Because the 70th week appears to commence with the work of the two witness of Revelation 11, and they are not killed until they complete their prophesying, at which time the midpoint of the 70th week happens, and the beginning of the period in Daniel 12.

So the 1290 day time period runs 30 days past the end of the second 1260 day period, that started at the half of the yet future 70th week of Daniel. What happens during this 30 days could be Armageddon. It appears the beast is in power the entire seven year period, and it seems to me the tribulation that will never occur again takes place the last half of the 70th week. The holy ones are not on the earth at this time, having been killed at the end of the first 3.5 year period of their prophesying and resurrected after the 3 ½ days and then raptured to heaven soon after this when the seventh trumpet sounds. It seems that the holy ones that were killed by the beast after the first 1260 period are resurrected to life at the same time as the saints of old, and that they spend some time walking around the earth before they are raptured.

The 1335 days period
The 1335 days starts at the midpoint of the 70th week too, and is 45 days past the end of the 1290 day period. What is noteworthy of this period is that “Happy is the one who is keeping in expectation and who arrives at the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days!” So who arrives at the end of this time period? Ideas?




v r






8 Now as for me, I heard, but I could not understand; so that I said: “O my lord, what will be the final part of these things?” 9 And he went on to say: “Go, Daniel, because the words are made secret and sealed up until the time of [the] end. 10 Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will certainly act wickedly, and no wicked ones at all will understand; but the ones having insight will understand. 11 “And from the time that the constant [feature] has been removed and there has been a placing of the disgusting thing that is causing desolation, there will be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 “Happy is the one who is keeping in expectation and who arrives at the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days! 13 “And as for you yourself, go toward the end; and you will rest, but you will stand up for your lot at the end of the days.”. Daniel 12:8-13