Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Warning (for all those who want to be surprised). Spoilers ahead.

I was checking out the new book release, "Come Be My Follower."

It's not a bad premise. It uses the example of Jesus to show how we all should behave. That's always a good way to go.

On the other hand, we have to be careful doing that. Not everything Jesus did or concentrated on was supposed to be an example for us.

Thus, for instance, he is King of Kings and Lord of Lords, God's representative on earth, leader of the Congregation. But it would be a mistake to think we should take on such a role ourselves.

And yet the WTS does do this when it argues that, since Jesus and his apostles were primarily focused on preaching the kingdom, so should all Christians in our own time.

Anyway, I thought I would make a few comments on something stated on pp. 62-63 of the book.

The writing committee makes a decent point in saying that Jesus set an example in going to synagogue, even though there was corruption in it.

Their point, of course, is that we should all be going to the Kingdom Halls, even if there are things wrong.

They then mention that, in time, God "made changes," and then it was no longer right to worship with the Jews. But then add: "We live in far different times, the long foretold era of the restoration of pure worship. God assures us that he will never allow Satan to corrupt his restored people (Isaiah 2:1, 2; 54:17)."

I had thought that when the Christian church began, that that was a restoration of pure worship, but what do I know?

Indeed, those scriptures cited I would venture to say would have been applied by Peter and Paul to their own time.

I am interested to hear people's comments on those scriptures and how you think they apply or don't apply to this situation.

Thank you donbodo for bringing this up. "We live in far different times?" Maybe in terms of technological advancement and social reform but not in human nature.

My point is this: Religiously, we are no different. And when Jesus arrives for a second time, the only thing that will have changed is that our modern day Pharisees in our present day synagogueswill be found sitting not in the seat of Moses, but that of Christ. And when he arrives, will his words not echo perhaps all of Matthew 23? [backeted comments are mostly my parallel thoughts]

"Therefore all the things they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds, for they say but do not perform. 4 They bind up heavy loads [lots of meetings and obligatory routines to distract one from any greater depth of Bible study] and put them upon the shoulders of men, but they themselves are not willing to budge them with their finger [in other words, they are more concerned with corporate policy and imposed unity than than the true spirit of the Bible of which Jesus taught]. 5 All the works they do they do to be viewed by men; for they broaden the [scripture-containing<---I can only add to this one lots of reading material beyond what is written] cases that they wear as safeguards, and enlarge the fringes [of their garments<----my qualification is 'theocratic' language and other 'new personality' embellishments].

6 They like the most prominent place at evening meals and the front seats in the synagogues [pretty well self-explanatory], 7 and the greetings in the marketplaces and to be called Rabbi [elder, etc] by men. 8 But you, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your teacher, whereas all you are brothers. 9 Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth [and don't we keep nailing Christendom with that one?], for one is YOUR Father, the heavenly One. 10 Neither be called ‘leaders,’ for your Leader is one, the Christ.[not some self-appointed faithful and discreet slave] 11 But the greatest one among you must be YOUR minister. 12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted [all in good time and none too soon.](Matthew 23:3-12)

sw

How long is it going to take the Father to Restore his people and True Worship? According to the Society, he's been doing it since 1919.

RR

Jesus went to the Synogogue to give the Truth... not to get it... The Apostles did the same...

perhaps some of you can go the the KH in an attempt to give them some Truth... shouldn't take them long to kick you to the curb...

;)

And yet the WTS does do this when it argues that, since Jesus and his apostles were primarily focused on preaching the kingdom, so should all Christians in our own time.

If the watchtower taught anything close to what Jesus taught about the kingdom, they just might have a case.

The writing committee makes a decent point in saying that Jesus set an example in going to synagogue, even though there was corruption in it.

Their point, of course, is that we should all be going to the Kingdom Halls, even if there are things wrong.

Nice try. When did he say that the Christian congregation should imitate the ancient Jewish one? The change was made 2000 years ago and we have 2000 years experience going in reverse. It's almost as if Jesus never showed up. If we choose not to listen to Jesus - or experience...well, that's on us.

gus

I'm not so sure this was always true, Jon. To be sure, Jesus and the apostles confessed Jesus in the synagogue, but I don't think that's because they went into the synagogue to convert people. I think they were in there anyway. Jesus says that his followers would be expelled (disfellowshipped) from the synagogues (John 16:2), which implies that they would have membership there.

Okay, so the question was, could you get away with opening a scroll in the synagogue since that's what synagogues were for---repositories for scrolls of the Pentateuch, Psalms, Proverbs, the prophets, etc. The synagogue was there for readings and discussion. As long as you were not too explicit against the scribes and chief priests you were fine. As for the mainstream 'oral law' of the Pharisees, Essenes, Sadducees, etc., they were all in such conflict with each other, there wasn't much danger of getting kicked out for quoting the Law and Prophets to them with just a few words added.

Remember what happened when Jesus did that? "They all began to give favorable witness about him and to marvel at the winsome words proceeding out of his mouth."

But Jesus, unwilling to receive their false praise went on to say, “No doubt YOU will apply this illustration to me, ‘Physician, cure yourself; the things we heard as having happened in Ca·per′na·um do also here in your home territory.’” 24 But he said: “Truly I tell YOU that no prophet is accepted in his home territory. 25 For instance, I tell YOU in truth, There were many widows in Israel in the days of E·li′jah, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, so that a great famine fell upon all the land, 26 yet E·li′jah was sent to none of those [women], but only to Zar′e·phath in the land of Si′don to a widow. 27 Also, there were many lepers in Israel in the time of E·li′sha the prophet, yet not one of them was cleansed, but Na′a·man the man of Syria.” 28 Now all those hearing these things in the synagogue became filled with anger; 29 and they rose up and hurried him outside the city, and they led him to the brow of the mountain upon which their city had been built, in order to throw him down headlong. (Luke 4:22-29)

Which is somewhat the same today in the KH. As long as you stick to scripture and don't explicitly apply them against those who have the power to throw you out, you can get away with much and leave others with much to think about. Just remember, Jesus was fearless when "the chief priests and the older men of the people came up to him while he was teaching and said: 'By what authority do you do these things? And who gave you this authority?'" Indeed, we might not be quite as good as he was in dodging bullets. But it's worthwhile to refresh ourselves from time to time with the way Jesus handled all of these testy situations. (Matthew 21:23)

Love,

sw

Someone on JWD put a link to a site where one can download a copy of this book. Here is the link.

http://www.verzend.be/v/4136217/2007_Com..._.pdf.html

Warm Christian Love
Bangalore

Thank you Bangalore

I will have a read - good to see the pics are included

:heartbeat:

One thing to keep in mind is that the synagogues were the realm of the Pharisees. The Sadducees were associated with the Temple, and the Essenes met alone off by themselves.

Thank you don, I appreciate your clarification of that.
sw

Now that the so-called "Bible study" has begun to consider this book, I thought I should resurrect the thread.

I also appreciated donbodo's good research. While some of his beliefs went over the top and created an explosive controversy, his ability to see surrounding context within any given culture and era was textbook to say the least.

So all you donbodos out there, don't be afraid to post your research ... just keep your speck-you-lay-shins to feed your lab rats.

Affectionately,

sw