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Good afternoon everyone. Not used to posting but wanted to ask a question. What does the Holy Spirit mean to you? I was raised a witness but haven't been to meetings for about 4 years and don't plan on going back. I
always felt the Holy Spirit was a person or being. You can sin against Jesus and be forgivin and you can sin against god and be forgivin but you can't sin against the Holy Spirit because you won't be forgivin. Some feel that Holy Spirit is Gods active force but if the Holy Spirit is part of God then apart of him won't forgive you if you sin against the active force of him? I would like to hear what you all think. :hibye: Thanks for listening.
Manyfaces
I personally believe the holy spirit to be the "mother" of jesus as it or she seems to have very many femine characteristics. In Eph 5:32 it is also suggested the holy spirit is a kind of mother. The Holy Spirit (helper) has a nourishing quality in the lives of new Christians (babys) in concordance with reality. Ofcourse the Holy Spirit is subservient to our Father, thats the headship thing to begin with.
It or she provides a lot of help, but doesnt get on the mainground.

I have reason to believe i have a trauma from ewatchdub, i still have troubles questioning JW doctrine.

manyfaces Wrote:
I always felt the Holy Spirit was a person or being. You can sin against Jesus and be forgivin and you can sin against god and be forgivin but you can't sin against the Holy Spirit because you won't be forgivin.


"Whosoever speaketh against the holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come." Matt. 12:32

The thought generally deduced from this statement by those who consider the holy Spirit to be a personal God, separate and distinct from the Father and the Son, is that the holy Spirit is a much more important personage than either the Father or the Son. But as we have already seen, the Scriptures nowhere acknowledge more than one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and he superior to all; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and he next to the Father, exalted to that position by the Father's power. The holy Spirit was of the Father and by the Son, and hence could not be superior to them, if a person; but we have seen that there is no personality connected with the holy Spirit; rather it is the Spirit of a person or being, the Spirit of the Lord, his influence, his power, and, in this sense of the word, himself, representative of all his wisdom, majesty, power and love. Let us see, then, what the passage does signify.

From the context, we notice that our Lord Jesus had just been using this divine power, or holy Spirit, conferred upon him by the Father, to cast out a devil. The Pharisees who saw the miracle, and could not deny it, sought to turn aside its force by claiming that it was performed by Satanic power. In reply to them our Lord distinctly disclaimed the power he used as being his own, and asserts that it was divine power or influence, saying, "I cast out devils by the Spirit of God." He then upbraided the Pharisees for being so malicious as to attribute to an evil source that which they could not deny was a good work, and accompanied by no evidence whatever of sin, selfishness, or even ambition. He denominates them a generation of vipers, so set upon the traditions of their church that their minds were blinded to most simple and manifest truths. It was plainly evident that the power or influence which had possessed the afflicted one was devilish, malignant; and that any power which would dispossess it must be out of harmony with that evil disposition, so that these teachers were inexcusable, when they claimed, without any cause, that the miracle was performed by the power of Satan.

Our Lord pointed out further, that although they had not intentionally blasphemed Jehovah, nor had they particularly blasphemed himself, they had blasphemed against the holy power or Spirit which was operating in him. For them to have misunderstood and misrepresented the invisible God would have been a much lighter offense; and to have spoken evil of our Lord Jesus and to have misinterpreted his motives, claiming that he was merely trying to usurp a throne and to exalt himself in power, would also have been a comparatively light offense--measuring his motives by their own selfish ambition and pride. But their conduct was worse: after they had witnessed the manifestation of divine power in performing a good deed for the relief of one of their fellow-creatures from the power of the devil--to blaspheme this holy power, meant a degree of wickedness and animosity of heart of much deeper dye than either of the other offenses would have implied.

Our Lord pointed out to them that in their ignorance and blindness they might have misinterpreted him, his words, his efforts; and in similar blindness they might have misinterpreted many of God's dealings, and spoken evil thereof; but when once the power of God had been witnessed by them, in direct contrast with the power of the devil, the fact that they spoke evil of it implied most unmistakably that their hearts were in a most unholy condition. Sins of ignorance may be forgiven men--will be forgiven men-- because the ignorance came through the fall, and a ransom has been paid for all who shared in the fall and its curse. But sins against clear manifestations of divine grace cannot be attributed to weakness of the flesh and heredity, but must be properly charged up as wilful viciousness of the heart, which is unforgivable.

Wilful, intentional evil will never have forgiveness--neither in this age, nor in the coming age. God's proposition is not to force men into harmony with himself; but after redeeming them he will furnish to all an opportunity of coming to a knowledge of the truth and witnessing the goodness of God through the operation of his holy Spirit: whoever then continues out of harmony with the divine arrangement proves himself a wilful sinner, an intelligent opponent of the holy power of God--for such the Lord has no further provisions of grace.

Whether or not the Scribes and Pharisees came to a sufficiently clear appreciation of God's holy power to constitute them amenable to the Second Death, for reproaching it as an evil power, we cannot judge. We are not able to judge, because we are unable to read their hearts, and because our Lord did not fully state the matter in this connection. If assured they sinned against clear light, sinned to the full against the power of God, we could have no further hope for them, but should merely expect them to perish in the Second Death, as wilful rejectors of God's grace. But if they did not receive a sufficiency of light and knowledge, sufficient contact with the holy power of God, to constitute for them a full trial, they must ultimately come to such a full trial, before they could suffer the full penalty--Second Death.

But every sin against the holy Spirit, against clear light and knowledge of divine power, is unforgivable, because wilful. If it be a wilful sin against a measure of light, then "stripes," punishment, will result, unavoidably; if it be wilful sin against a larger measure of light and a greater favor in connection with the holy power of God, then a greater measure of stripes; but if the transgression involves a full, clear conception of right and wrong, and full, knowing opposition to the holy power of God, it would mean everlasting destruction, the Second Death, the full wages of sin. The forgiveness of sins secured by the ransom covers sins of ignorance or weakness resulting from the fall, and not personal, wilful, deliberate sins against light. We are not to forget, however, that many sins which contain a measure of wilfulness blend with it a measure of weakness or of ignorance of right principles or of both. To the proportion of its ignorance and weakness any sin is forgivable through the grace of God in Christ--through faith in and acceptance of his atonement: and to the proportion that any sin was wilful, intentional sin it is unforgivable--must be expiated by punishment--"stripes," so long as some forgivable quality inheres in the sin; death, destruction, when no forgivable quality can be found in the sin.

Thus seen, all wilful sin is sin against light, sin against the holy Spirit of truth--and such sin hath never forgiveness.

Thanks SpiceAnt and RR144 for your input. Some how I kind of agree with SpiceAnt. I guess we are on the same line of thought. Thanks again. :)
Manyfaces
Attn; rr144 If Jesus used holy spirit to perform his many miracles then did Satan also use holy spirit or is there also an unholy spirit?
My hubby wanted to know if there are 2 spirits.
Thank you...manyfaces
:)
There is a god of this world, and it is not God.

2Co 4:4 in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn upon them.

Job 1:12 And Jehovah said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thy hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of Jehovah.

manyfaces Wrote:
Attn; rr144 If Jesus used holy spirit to perform his many miracles then did Satan also use holy spirit or is there also an unholy spirit?

Satan and the demons are special .... they are spirit beings, with powers beyond those of humans.

BTW ... are you or your hubby disputing that Jesus used the Holy Spirit to perform miracles? Because the apostles and early disciples also performed miracles when the Lord gave them the Holy Spirit.

RR

RR thank you for your input. No we are not saying anything about Jesus using holy spirit, where did I say that? I was just saying that is what I feel the holy spirit is. I wasn't saying that you are wrong just wanted other peoples view on it. My husband was just asking a question, please don't get uptight. the bible says when Jesus was baptised then The holy spirit came down on hime like a dove. Why not say Gods Holy Spirit came down or the Lords holy spirit since it is part of him as you say? It says The holy spirit just like " in the name of the Son the Father and THE Holy spirit why not say Gods Holy spirit? Just a thought my friend please don't take offense that is why I never posted on the other site didn't want to cause any waves. this is just a question. Much peace, manyfaces. :thumbup:
No, no, no RR, I've never heard anyone consider the Holy Spirit as more important than the Father!

Perhaps that's why its a safe thought to knock down, because no-one believes it anyway!!!

The Holy Spirit is a gift of the Father, sent only when the Son had left the earth for heaven to sit at the Father's right hand!!

So He can't be seen as 'more important' than the One who sent Him! :grouphug:
Hi there many faces ...:hibye::D ... :):strong::fishy::jogging::chef::queen::chacha:

Not sure if I covered ya'll ... but I tried ... :whistle::love:;);)

As to your question concerning the the holy spirit being represented as a 'dove' ... perhaps you and your hubby might consider this ...?:redface:

Since the holy spririt would be invisible ... for 'humans' to SEE it it would have to be displayed in a 'visible' manner would it not ...?

And what better representation than a 'dove' ... for was it not a dove that was sent out of the ark that brought back the olive leaf ...

Gen. 8:8-12 ...

8 Later he sent out from him a dove to see whether the waters had abated from the surface of the ground. 9 And the dove did not find any resting-place for the sole of its foot, and so it returned to him into the ark because the waters were yet upon the surface of the whole earth. At that he put his hand out and took it and brought it to himself inside the ark. 10 And he went on waiting still another seven days, and once again he sent out the dove from the ark. 11 Later on the dove came to him about the time of evening and, look! there was an olive leaf freshly plucked in its bill, and so Noah got to know that the waters had abated from the earth. 12 And he went on waiting still another seven days. Then he sent out the dove, but it did not come back again to him anymore.

There are many things that at first glance ... indeed I am only noticing them now as I am writing this to you ... that we may not notice ... but COULD be why a dove was used ...

How many times was the dove sent out ...?
When people think of 'doves' what are the first two emotions that come to mind ...?
How long did Jesus preach ...?
How long was he in the ground ...?
What has giving one an 'olive branch' (leaf) come to represent ...?

Jehovah our God is a FAR SEEING God ... and one whose thoughts and ways are so much higher that he uses ... as his Son used ... illustrative way to 'communicate' with us ...

Perhaps the 'dove' in this instance was one of them ...? :giverose::happyheart:

I so hope you won't be shy about posting ... RR was probably just seeking clarification in that straight forward way of his ...;):read:

That is WHY I LOVE my smilies ...:cheer::thumbsup: It helps to bring across the emotion you are trying to convey ... when sometimes the written word can across 'cold' :cold:or 'hard' :headbang:or :halt:'strict' ... when the poster is intending a far different emotion ... 'warmth' :redface:or 'tongue in cheek':P or 'confused':funnyface::confused: ...

Much love to you ... your sis BR:bouncyhearts::friends::cheekkiss:
:coffeeread:

Hello there: I think the holy spirit is the power of God, but the holy spirit sent on Pentecost.. was the spirit of God and Christ.
Hi there luvin' Christ, interesting thought, thank you for that.
Manyfaces. :)

Archangel Wrote:
The Holy Spirit is a gift of the Father, sent only when the Son had left the earth for heaven to sit at the Father's right hand!!

So He can't be seen as 'more important' than the One who sent Him! :grouphug:


Thanks, sweet and simple.

man hu Wrote:

Archangel Wrote:
The Holy Spirit is a gift of the Father, sent only when the Son had left the earth for heaven to sit at the Father's right hand!!

So He can't be seen as 'more important' than the One who sent Him! :grouphug:


Thanks, sweet and simple.

OK, but there's more to it than that, because Zechariah's son John, who's birth preceded Jesus' birth, was "filled with holy spirit right from his mother's womb"; and was to have "Elijah's spirit and power" - Luke 1:13-17; and after his birth, John, "the young child went on growing and getting strong in the spirit..." Luke 1:80

So it wasn't here, then gone, then it came back at Pentecost... I believe it's always been a constant presence, 'the power of God', that as Jesus said 'is like the wind and goes where it wants' and is ever present and ready 'to help' when we avail ourselves of it / when we recognise the spirit of God and welcome it into our lives, minds and hearts to guide us in God's ways of uprightness. I don't believe it's a separate entity from God like a person, even though it's been 'personalized' as 'he', it's also recorded as 'it'... Just like stones and donkeys don't talk unless God makes them, right? So the spirit does as God wants because it's of Him and from Him and is Him. It is also the spirit of Christ because he's in such a close union with the Father - it's the same holy spirit of God and of Christ.
My :2cents:
:peace:

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