how biblical is it?
predestination appears at the end of romans eight. however calvinist ideas do not seem good as witnessing tools. does calvinism present God as bad?
how biblical is it?
predestination appears at the end of romans eight. however calvinist ideas do not seem good as witnessing tools. does calvinism present God as bad?
hi, piers. :) "WELCOME!" :hibye: i knew that you were having some trouble getting everything to work right so that you could post. i'm glad to see that you got that worked out all right.
does calvinism present God as bad?
in my opinion, piers, yes it does. the scriptures sometimes say things that, if we were to consider them in isolation, could lead us to conclude that god "predestines" individuals. however, as we study more deeply and examine "the breadth and length and heighth and depth" (ephesians 3:18) of god's word, we come to understand the overall "pattern of healthful words." (2 timothy 1:13.)
god predestined the full and complete accomplishment of his will; but, not the eternal outcome of individuals. all of his intelligent creatures have been endowed with "free will"; not, "robot" status.
calvinism was one of the predominant religious schools of thought among the earliest settlers of the united states of america. they formed part of the very strong puritanical contingency. the one which, before long, led to the "salem witch trials."
i could say more. but, i'll stop there for now.
again, "welcome," piers! :thumbsup:
your friend and brother, ... isomam
God indeed does foresee and foreknow all things. He is outside of time, and can certainly see the finality before the beginning.
Furthermore, as you noted Paul outlines this in Romans 8 and 9. He does use some individuals as instruments of wrath, and instruments of mercy. He is the potter and we are the clay. But this must be understood in the context of God's ultimate plan for mankind.
Paul speaks of this plan when he states:
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him[Jesus Christ], and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
Nowhere in the scriptures will you find ANY support for God predestining ANYONE to hell.
As Paul states additionally in Romans:
For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Piers, definitely study this subject with the heart of the Father in mind. Trust me, it is most rewarding.
There is a mistake with the idea of free will. We do not have a free will. We are all bound to do whatever we think is the best thing to do at all times which includes Our father's will which is also bound by his infinite love and will therefor always do what is best too. We do have free choices, which is hardly the same as will. We do not have a choice in wether we do good or bad, we always freely choose the best choices.
okay thats cool. so what about limited atonement? did jesus just die for those who are going to accept him or have accepted him as their saviour?
this seems scriptual to me and I have certain verses in mind with this issue and ther is 1 verse in 1 of pauls epistles which I read one time talking about jesus dieng for his sheep or sumfin like that and I just cant find that verse anymore.
okay thats cool. so what about limited atonement? did jesus just die for those who are going to accept him or have accepted him as their saviour?
this seems scriptual to me and I have certain verses in mind with this issue and ther is 1 verse in 1 of pauls epistles which I read one time talking about jesus dieng for his sheep or sumfin like that and I just cant find that verse anymore.
hi, piers. :) it's getting late for me; and, i'm exhausted. i will try to offer some thoughts (with scriptures) tomorrow. ok? :ok:
your friend and brother, ... isomam