Many JW’s are of the impression that the “Judgment Dayâ€, spoken of in 2 Peter 3:7-9, comes BEFORE the time Satan is Abyssed. But where in the Bible does it say this?
In fact the purpose of Satan being “Abyssed†is so that he cannot “mislead the Nations†during the judgement period. Thus allowing all a fair opportunity for salvation.
Just an FYI,
I was a JW and never heard of the 1k yrs and then satan being abyssed.
did you mistate?
TD
:coffeeread:
hey there John..
I do believe that the judgement day starts in the middle of the 7 year (3 1/2 + 3 1/2) period..
Rev. 14 :7 ...."Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water."
After this Judgement statement.. vs. 9 says: "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury"....
vs. 12 "This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus."
Then in vss. 14 on, it is discussing the harvest of the earth..where to 'son of man' puts in his sickle and reaps..
So, the judgment time is a time of endurance on the part of the saints, and also a time for people to make sure they don't have the 'mark of the beast'.
I have more, but if this link continues, I'll write it..
:thumbup:
Hi John,
I believe this is Judgment day; "Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. "Revelation 20:11-13
Judgment day takes place after Satan is released at the end of the 1000 years, misled people, and is eternally destroyed.
AR
Just an FYI,
I was a JW and never heard of the 1k yrs and then satan being abyssed.
did you mistate?
TD
Actually many "Witnesses" never think about it this way or obviously it makes no sense. But many DO believe that the words of 2 Peter 3: 7-9 are applicable to right now, and people are being judged right now. Case in point:
John Wrote:
Absolutely true! The patience and love of our Heavenly father is extremely deep. This is why he will allow ample time after Satan is bound (2 Peter 3:7,8), so as not to mislead the Nations, for mankind to “attain to repentance.†(Isa 11:9, Rev 20:2) The point is, salvation from this destruction is not as a result of heeding the message preached by the Wt Society today. The scripture does not indicate this; you are mistaken friend.
Benjamin Wrote:
Actually Peter words apply to the time before the Devil's imprisonment in the abyss...
I may be wrong, but I think that this thinking was perpetuated by the statements in the "Live Forever..." book which speaks of TWO judgement days.
So, yes, I think the judgement day is 1000 years and is a day.. 11 Peter 3:7 -9...
But there is an hour of judgement to 'kick' it off.. in the middle of the GT.. and then there is a major and final judgement in the finale of the millenium, after Satan is let loosed..as AR states. hmm.. very good subject.
Here is the order Revelation gives:
1) Judgment upon Babylon the Great (Rev 16:17-19:10)
2) Judgment upon the wild beast and false prophet (Rev 19:11-21)
3) Abyssing of Satan (Rev 20:1-3)
4) First resurrection (Rev. 20:4-6)
5) Satan's last stand (Rev 20:7-9a)
6) Judgment upon Satan (Rev 20:9b-10)
7) Second resurrection (Rev 20:11-13a)
8) Judgment of all individuals according to their deeds (Rev 20:13b)
I didn't know Revelation was chronicillogical?
I didn't know Revelation was chronicillogical?
Haha. Purposeful misspelling? I think we should always assume something is in order unless it tells us otherwise or cannot be.
Is there anything about the order I listed above that's impossible?
Good topic
I agree with some of the above... I think it is relatively clear that Peter shows that he is talking about the "day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men" in vs. 7 and then draws a parenthesis and gives the important clue... "be not ignorant of this one thing, that a day with the Lord is a thousand years and a thousand years as one day"... and then continues describing the period... The Millennium is the day of judgment... it begins with the house of God... and moves through Christendom... and the resurrection(s) are inclusive within its timeframe. The establishment of the New Heavens and New Earth of vs. 13 is the purpose of this 'day' and by its end all will be judged and corrected... the little season will manifest those who did not perfect themselves 'to the bone'... and they will be destroyed... the rest will live everlastingly in perfection on the earth... we may disagree on the details... but this simple outline seems clear to me... any comments?
jonalfred :heartbeat:
Suggestion,.... First and second resurrection are first and second in quality, not timing, just as second death is type not time.
Interestingly the book/scroll of life starts off as a little book and becomes a book, in other words it grows to accomodate the names.
:read:
Don wrote: Post: #7RE: The Judgement Day
Here is the order Revelation gives:
1) Judgment upon Babylon the Great (Rev 16:17-19:10)
2) Judgment upon the wild beast and false prophet (Rev 19:11-21)
3) Abyssing of Satan (Rev 20:1-3)
4) First resurrection (Rev. 20:4-6)
5) Satan's last stand (Rev 20:7-9a)
6) Judgment upon Satan (Rev 20:9b-10)
7) Second resurrection (Rev 20:11-13a)
8) Judgment of all individuals according to their deeds (Rev 20:13b)
Here's the order I'm thinking:
1) and 2) and 3) Judgment upon B the Great and the wild beast and false prophet and Satan (all at the same time) although Satan really was judged in the garden of Eden..
4) 1st ressurection
5) abyssing of Satan
6) 2nd ressurection
7) Satan's last stand
8) Judgement of all individuals according to their deeds...(The entire 1000 years starting at the beginning of the kingdom reign in the middle of the GT)..(
Here is the order Revelation gives:
1) Judgment upon Babylon the Great (Rev 16:17-19:10)
2) Judgment upon the wild beast and false prophet (Rev 19:11-21)
3) Abyssing of Satan (Rev 20:1-3)
4) First resurrection (Rev. 20:4-6)
5) Satan's last stand (Rev 20:7-9a)
6) Judgment upon Satan (Rev 20:9b-10)
7) Second resurrection (Rev 20:11-13a)
8) Judgment of all individuals according to their deeds (Rev 20:13b)
This chronological listing places the second resurrection AFTER Satan is destroyed, but this does not seem to make sense that the 1,000 year Judgment day would be AFTER the 1,000 year millennial reign. There are other scriptures which indicate that the judgment day and the millennial reign are one and the same. Think about something, the purpose of Satan being abyssed is so that “he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled†(Rev 20:3). How could Satan not deceive the “nations†if the “nations†were not there? Logic would tell us that the PURPOSE of Satan being inactivated is to allow the “nations†a full and fair opportunity to accept Christ, as the Church has. Also, both Acts 17:31 and 1Cor 6:2 indicate that both the Church and Christ will “Judge the world†one particular “day.†Logic would tell us that this is the same “Judgment day†referred to in 2Peter.
Another point of interest is the fact that many refer to Revelation 20:5 as evidence that the 2nd resurrection occurs after the 1,000 years reign. However notice the following information:
In this verse the words "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" are spurious (Rev 20:5). They are not found in the oldest and most reliable Greek MSS, the Sinaitic, Vatican Nos. 1209 and 1160, nor the Syriac MS. We must remember that many passages found in the modern copies are additions which do not properly belong to the Bible. Since commanded not to add to the Word of God, it is our duty to repudiate such additions as soon as their spurious character is established. The words indicated probably crept into the text by accident, in the fifth century; for no MS of earlier date (either Greek or Syriac) contains this clause. It was probably at first merely a marginal comment made by a reader, expressive of his thought upon the text, and copied into the body of the text by some subsequent transcriber who failed to distinguish between the text and the comment.
“and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment.†– John 5:29 ASV
The trial of the Church during this Gospel age is along lines considerably different from those which will be applied to the trial of the world in the next age. For instance, mankind in general shall be tried or judged according to their works, during the Millennial age, as shown in this lesson and in Rev. 20:12; but the Church of this age is not judged according to its works, which could not be perfect because of the infirmities of the flesh, "for we have this treasure [the new nature] in earthen vessels." The Church is judged according to their FAITH: "This is the victory that overcometh the world [during this age, while the world is under the Prince of this world, Satan, and in antagonism to righteousness and the righteous], even your faith."
There are other scriptures which indicate that the judgment day and the millennial reign are one and the same.
Hi John. I am not aware of any.
Think about something, the purpose of Satan being abyssed is so that “he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled†(Rev 20:3). How could Satan not deceive the “nations†if the “nations†were not there? Logic would tell us that the PURPOSE of Satan being inactivated is to allow the “nations†a full and fair opportunity to accept Christ, as the Church has.
I agree with that. This would also indicate that during that period, judgment must be placed on hold. Otherwise, there would be no full and fair opportunity.
Also, both Acts 17:31 and 1Cor 6:2 indicate that both the Church and Christ will “Judge the world†one particular “day.†Logic would tell us that this is the same “Judgment day†referred to in 2Peter.
I would equate Acts 17:31 and 1 Cor. 6:2 with the judgment at the end of the 1000 years. But I don't think 2 Peter 3:7 is talking about that. I think it is talking about the judgment of "the house of God" (=Babylon the Great). According to Revelation, this judgment occurs before the 1000 years.
Another point of interest is the fact that many refer to Revelation 20:5 as evidence that the 2nd resurrection occurs after the 1,000 years reign. However notice the following information:
In this verse the words "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" are spurious (Rev 20:5). They are not found in the oldest and most reliable Greek MSS, the Sinaitic, Vatican Nos. 1209 and 1160, nor the Syriac MS. We must remember that many passages found in the modern copies are additions which do not properly belong to the Bible. Since commanded not to add to the Word of God, it is our duty to repudiate such additions as soon as their spurious character is established. The words indicated probably crept into the text by accident, in the fifth century; for no MS of earlier date (either Greek or Syriac) contains this clause. It was probably at first merely a marginal comment made by a reader, expressive of his thought upon the text, and copied into the body of the text by some subsequent transcriber who failed to distinguish between the text and the comment.
Whether the verse is original or not, you still can't deny that the resurrection in 20:11-13 occurs after the 1000 years in the narrative.
“and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment.†– John 5:29 ASV
The trial of the Church during this Gospel age is along lines considerably different from those which will be applied to the trial of the world in the next age. For instance, mankind in general shall be tried or judged according to their works, during the Millennial age, as shown in this lesson and in Rev. 20:12
Rev 20:12 and John 5:29 do not say that judgment takes place during the 1000 years. They say only that the judgment takes place upon resurrection. But the resurrection takes place after the 1000 years.
Before Satan is destroyed. he is let loose for a short period. For what purpose? To test resurrected ones? Ones that have been resurrected during the thousand years?
imo....yes.
Revelation 20:7...
"Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison, and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Ma´gog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea. And they advanced over the breadth of the earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city. But fire came down out of heaven and devoured them."
.02,
gogh