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Taking a Stand


(all sripture quotes from the Modern King James Version)

Mar 8:34 “And calling near the crowd with His disciples, He said to them, “Whoever will come after Me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me.””

In Jesus day, these words could mean, and in many cases did mean, horrible persecution, torture and death itself.

“The Foxes Book of Martyrs reports that, of the eleven remaining Apostles (since Judas Iscariot had already killed himself), only one- John, the son of Zebedee and Salome, the younger brother of James and the writer of the Book of Revelation- died of natural causes in exile. The other ten were reportedly martyred by various means including beheading, by sword and spear and, in the case of Saint Peter, crucifixion.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxe%27s_Book_of_Martyrs


The question for us today is: have we picked up our cross?

What could our “cross” mean for us personally?



Here are some questions to consider:


Have I completely left behind, and unshackled myself from, Religions and religious practices that I absolutely know to be false?

Am I afraid that I will loose the approval of family and friends if I take a stand?

Do I imitate my Lord Jesus Christ in standing for, and being zealous for truth regardless of the consequences?


SO, considering these one by one:


Have I completely left behind, and unshackled myself from, Religions and religious practices that I absolutely know to be false?

2Co 6:15, 16 “And what agreement does Christ have with Belial? Or what part does a believer have with an unbeliever? (16) And what agreement does a temple of God have with idols? For you are the temple of the living God, as God has said, "I will dwell in them and walk among them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."


For example, the Catholic Church teaches the following:

9. In 1442 A.D, Pope Eugenius IV, 1442, at the Council of Florence, reaffirmed this truth. "It firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews, and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart 'into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels' [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church. (D.E.S.; The Sources of Catholic Dogma; 30th edition, # 714)
10. The same truth regarding the necessity of the Catholic Church for salvation was reaffirmed by Pope Gregory XVI in 1832 A.D.; Pope Pius IX in 1854 A.D.; Pope Pius IX in 1863 A.D.; Pope John XXIII on June 29, 1961 A.D.; Pope John Paul I, on August 27, 1978; Pope John Paul II on October 21, 1981, etc...

http://www.catholicdoors.com/courses/salvatio.htm


Note that Jehovah’s Witnesses hold to a similar concept:


You Can live Forever (1982, 1990) p.255

“Do not conclude that there are different roads, or ways, that you can follow to gain life in God's new system. There is only one. There was just one ark that survived the Flood, not a number of boats. And there will be only one organization — God's visible organization — that will survive the fast-approaching "great tribulation." It is simply not true that all religions lead to the same goal… You must be part of Jehovah's organization, doing God's will, in order to receive his blessing of everlasting life…”

Watchtower 1981 December 1 p.27 The Path of the Righteous Does Keep Getting Brighter

“Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave," made up of spirit-anointed ones … Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do.”

Watchtower 1981 November 15 p.21 'Stay Awake and Keep Your Senses'

“And while now the witness yet includes the invitation to come to Jehovah's organization for salvation...”

http://www.quotes-watchtower.co.uk/home.html


While the pomp and circumstance of these two religions are vastly different, the core concept is the same, and that is, one cannot be approved by God without membership in their organization. In essence, these groups and their leadership have placed themselves in the position of mediator between God and men, or even that of Christ and men; an untenable Biblical position. Note:

1Ti 2:5 “For God is one, and there is one Mediator of God and of men, the Man Christ Jesus”

Joh 14:6 “Jesus said to him, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but by Me.”

1Co 11:3 “But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.”


No church or organization is required or even mentioned in regard to ones standing with God or Jesus Christ. These scriptures speak for themselves.

So, do we cling to these religious organizations, even after we know them to be Biblically false, at their very core? Do we rationalize attending the functions of these religions, “well…I’m just going to ‘observe’ or ‘associate’”?

I feel this way: if I were to attend a Watchtower Study/Convention, I would be expected to affirm the outright lies that are taught there as unshakeable truths, namely, that more is required than Jesus Christ and God’s grace for my salvation.

Asserting that Christ isn’t enough and that approval of an organization of men, (regardless of what “window dressing” that organization puts in its storefront) is required for a relationship with God is one of the most heinous lies that one could submit to. Part of “taking a stand” is not only purging that falsehood from mind and physically separating from it entirely, but also verbally avowing before those men and God, that I want no part of it, and that Christ is my Lord.


Mat 10:32-33 “Then everyone who shall confess Me before men, I will confess him before My Father who is in Heaven. (33) But whoever shall deny Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father in Heaven.”


Am I afraid that I will loose the approval and association of family and friends if I take a stand?

Mat 10:34-38 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth. I did not come to send peace, but a sword. (35) For I have come to set a man against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. (36) And a man's foes shall be those of his own household. (37) He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. (38) And he who does not take up his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me.”


This one is exceptionally difficult.

For a Jehovah’s Witness, ones entire life is structured around fellow believers, be they family or friends. Some of these friendships may span decades of shared experiences and mutual support that others on the “outside” simply don’t understand. The very knowledge that verbal dissent/taking a stand against “the organization” will guarantee immediate punitive measures by those most loved and trusted is so uncomfortable that some hold back from doing so, sometimes for years. While the internet has made communication possible with others who also take issue with their religion, it is still quite a different matter to be willing to face the reality of one’s stand before real flesh and blood.

Those still clinging to a high control religion, mentally and or physically, have a relationship, first and foremost, with some nebulous, impersonal organization, with a “Vicar”, or a “Slave” as the figurehead. It is my belief that to maintain amicable relations with friends and family, at the expense of really searching out Christ, is a compromise and a very poor trade indeed. At a certain point, the road comes to a fork, and a decision has to be made.

Jesus words are explicit. We have to love him more than anyone else; nothing and no one can interfere with this relationship.

The freedom and joy of experiencing true spirituality, with Christ as the focus, is a wonderful lifelong journey that surpasses all else.

2Co 6:17-18 “Therefore come out from among them and be separated, says the Lord, and do not touch the unclean thing. And I will receive you (18) and I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.”




Do I imitate my Lord Jesus Christ in standing for, and being zealous for truth, regardless of the consequences?

Mat 10:28 “And do not fear those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. But rather fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.”

John 15:20 “Remember the word that I said to you, The servant is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted Me, they will also persecute you…”


An account of Jesus, early in his ministry, consider:

Luke 4:16-30 And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And, as His custom was, He went in to the synagogue on the Sabbath day and stood up to read. (17) And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And unrolling the book, He found the place where it was written, (18) "The Spirit of the Lord is on Me; because of this He has anointed Me to proclaim the Gospel to the poor. He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim deliverance to the captives, and new sight to the blind, to set at liberty those having been crushed, (19) to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord." (20) And rolling up the book, returning it to the attendant, He sat down. And the eyes of all in the synagogue were fastened on Him. (21) And He began to say to them, Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your ears. (22) And all bore witness to Him and wondered at the gracious words which came out of His mouth. And they said, Is this not Joseph's son?


It says “all bore witness to Him and wondered at the gracious words which came out of his mouth”. At this point, it would appear that he had a great measure of approval and acceptance from the members of the synagogue, to the extent that it set him apart and beyond others.

It would have been easy for him to just “ride the wave” of popularity; bask in the favor of those who had known him for so long, and further the good news, based on this foundation.


Note:

Luke 4:23-30 And He said to them, You will surely say this proverb to Me, Physician, heal yourself. Whatever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in your native-place. (24) And He said, Truly I say to you, No prophet is accepted in his native-place. (25) But I tell you truly, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elijah, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land. (26) But Elijah was not sent to any of them, except to Zarephath, a city of Sidon, to a woman, a widow. (27) And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Elisha the prophet, and none of them was cleansed except Naaman the Syrian. (28) And hearing these things, all in the synagogue were filled with wrath. (29) And they rose up and thrust Him outside the city, and led Him up to the brow of the hill on which their city was built, in order to throw Him down. (30) But passing through the midst of them, He went away.

In verse 28, “all all in the synagogue were filled with wrath”. Why this abrupt turnaround?

Verse 23 and 24 show requests of the people specific to Jesus, that is, “show us the miracles we've heard you've done in Capernaum”, and Jesus response that “no prophet is accepted in his home territory”. He could have left it at that.

His next words that roused them to violence. He showed them that in Israel's history it wasn't uncommon for gentiles to actually be blessed, even though God's promises and sacred covenants were entrusted to the Jews. The insinuation here is that God could be in their very midst and it wouldn't be good enough for them; they would always want more, and because of this lack of faith, blessings would be given to someone else. The very idea that some 'godless gentile' may be chosen for blessings over them was beyond disconcerting; they considered it outright inflammatory, punishable speech.

Now, why did he need to say this?

Because it was true.

Consider another:

John 10:29-33 My Father who gave them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand. (30) I and the Father are one! (31) Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. (32) Jesus answered them, I have shown you many good works from My Father; for which of these do you stone Me? (33) The Jews answered Him, saying, We do not stone you for a good work, but for blasphemy, and because you, being a man, make yourself God.


Here would have been the ideal time for Jesus to try to “make peace”, and explain the “good” points of his works, and find “common ground”.

Yet...

John 10:34-38 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your Law, "I said, You are gods?" (35) If He called those gods with whom the Word of God was, and the Scripture cannot be broken, (36) do you say of Him whom the Father has sanctified and sent into the world, You blaspheme, because I said, I am the Son of God? (37) If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me. (38) But if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works so that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.


Jesus stood his ground, solidified his argument with scripture, and invited further examination of his deeds as proof.

However:

John 10:39 Then they again sought to seize Him, but He went forth out of their hand.


So what is the point here?

Jesus did not attend the synagogue just to nod his head up and down, patronize and pacify the congregation and their expectations, then quietly retire (hide) and teach something contrary in secret.

When confronted, Jesus did not give some meandering, duplicitous, 'milk-toast' statement, so that he could peacefully “fade” into the countryside and avoid any “unpleasantries” associated with direct speech.


As scripture also reminds us, there is a time and a place for everything (Eccl 3:1). There were times in Jesus ministry when discretion served a greater purpose, as there were those seeking to kill him at times.

However, he didn't (nor do the examples of the apostles) advocate routinely following a course of falsehood to avoid conflict or to maintain personal comfort.

When the road of our personal journey comes to a “fork”, and a choice must be made, “taking a stand” is part of being a Christian; a part of carrying our own cross.


In closing, just a few scriptual examples of Jehovah's help in taking a stand; you will not be alone.

Ezekiel:

Eze 2:6 And you, son of man, do not be afraid of them, and of their words, though briers and thorns are with you, and you dwell among scorpions. Do not be afraid of their words, nor frightened by their faces, though they are a rebellious house.

Eze 3:8-9 Behold, I have made your face strong against their faces and your forehead strong against their foreheads. (9) I have made your forehead as an adamant harder than flint. Do not be bowed down by their faces, though they are a rebellious house.


Jeremiah:

Jer 1:7-8 But Jehovah said to me, Do not say, I am a boy; for you shall go to all that I shall send you, and whatever I command you, you shall speak. (8) Do not be afraid of their faces; for I am with you to deliver you, says Jehovah.


Joshua:

Jos 1:9 Have I not commanded you? Be strong and of good courage. Do not be afraid, neither be dismayed. For Jehovah your God is with you in all places where you go.


Mat 28:20 (the Message Bible) “Then instruct them in the practice of all I have commanded you. I'll be with you as you do this, day after day after day, right up to the end of the age."

Great post brother. I have come to realise that many groups feel they are under attack for doing what they think is right. The strange thing about this is who is been attacked and who is the attacker? We know the Jewish leaders for example thought they were under attack from whom? Jesus. Yet the opposite was true. My wife feels she is under attack if I start talking about the bible and dare I say it WT art. So

What is therefore true Christian forbearance? How can one know if a Christian is to be classified persecutor or persecuted? I know the answer but would like your opinion.

These comments are not meant to distract you from this great post. It was Very timely for me. Keep up the good work PropMin

There are so many good points in this essay, but I am going to comment on what I am sure that I have a problem with.

I am still one of Jehovah's Witnesses, inactive, because I have not yet disassociated from them. I need to. And I know for a fact that the only reason that I have not is because my family are witnesses and I don't want them to have anymore pain than they have already had to deal with and I still want to be around them without being ignored or any of us feeling more uncomfortable.

And I'm certain that this is the real reason why. I could make fake excuses for staying a part of a religion, a religion that keeps it's members from Jesus. That is the worst thing about it. How can I be associated with that? But I am. And I know it's wrong of me. No two ways about it. It is not ok to stay in a religion that is taking glory away from Jesus. Nor is it ok to continue to be around people who won't allow themselves to be helped or to be around them if we aren't going to stand up and tell them about Jesus, even if it means we're mocked. There's no point. I don't ever go to meetings. What's the point unless I am boldly telling them truths about Jesus? Going to meetings and just sitting there, all the while knowing their lies and knowing their lack of glory they give Jesus, and not saying anything about it is cowardly. So I feel good that I'm not doing that, but I'm still involved because I'm still considered a JW. And I don't like it.

I know that if I had no family in the wts that I would definately have disassociated myself a year ago. Absolutely. That is how I know that my reasons for staying are not good.

This is very good reasoning, Propmin. I hope no one takes offense to this topic even if they are still in the wts, whether active or not. I know there are a lot of people who are content with having faded and I don't really care if they decided that. Honestly, it isn't the worst thing. I know they feel like they don't need to DA from a religion that has no hold on them, and they aren't going to play by the wts rules. It doesn't bother me if they feel that way.

There is no true religion so what's the point of being in any religion. Are we really helping anyone know Jesus by staying? If not, is there any other reason good enough to stay?

Whom should you go to? Jesus.

I am a believer that people are doing the best that they can and that they are where they need to be--both emotionally as well as spiritually. this is a journey and people move along at different rates and make decisions based on their own circumstances--and their own heart. I wouldn't presume to tell anyone what I think they should be doing--especially when you realize the fall-out from some of these actions --just love people--support them when and as you can--and let them be who they need to be--we are all works in progress and we are all in good hands.....:hibye:

''God began doing a good work in you,
and I am sure he will continue it until
it is finished when Jesus Christ comes again.'' Philippians 1:6 :happyheart:

Good post wholfy,

But this is very diffucult thing to do too; somethimes we are ignoring the victims by being too torelant. It is very difficult thing to do.

"When the road of our personal journey comes to a “fork”, and a choice must be made, “taking a stand” is part of being a Christian;
a part of carrying our own cross."

...and a very personal decision it is. Each person must make a decision based on their own life story. What is right for the individual at any specific time is by default, what is right for ONLY them.

In my family there are Catholics, Baptists, Assembly of God, and ex JW's - that would be me, the ex-JW.

Now, I don't remember anyone denouncing me as a family member when I was studying and going to the Kingdom Hall. I just remember my family still communicating and loving me as families and reasonable people do. I was never kicked out of the family because I believed a certain way. I cannot imagine that happening in my family but I DO know it happens in families that are predominately JW's. I will pray that those in that situation can see that it is a PERSONAL choice between them and HIM. No amount of cajolling will or should do any good.
It is personal.
That is what PERSONAL means.

You can no more put your own ideals into someone else's head (if it is not right for them at any given time) than you can lead a bear out of a cave at hibernation time.
Cannot be done.
WHY would anyone want to try?
For love of your fellow man, perhaps?
OK, I can agree to that.

I know the personal struggles that go along with this scenario and these kinds of decisions are PERSONAL only for those who must still struggle with the decision. However, knowing the truth and being able to face yourself in the mirror are two distinctly different things.

Great Post Propmin. I am sure it has helped some who still struggle. But remember, it is still a PERSONAL decision and the hardest one many will ever make.

Love and Blessings to all,

Verb

I love this post Prop-min! It is exactly how I feel too. I wish my printer worked right now. It was very easy to follow and understand.

New Heart

I think many of us forget, that many JW's (also others but we are speaking about JW's) made a stand when they studied and became witnesses. I know of many who really were persecuted for their strong stand for Jehovah. I, myself faught my family, friends, and in particular, my husband.I believed at that time, that what I was fighting for was right. I went through many years of hell! But in the long run, following Bible principles, my life became serene and I had some wonderful moments in there. I took God's laws seriously, and because of that, it made my life easier. Especially in my marriage and with my family. I became something I hadn't previously been. I honestly loved God's word from the outset, as did all those others who made a stand for it. Many went through far more than I did. They were thrown out from the family, husbands and wives dis-owned them, and some of them lost all their family, including their children. I would call that persecution, Propmin, and many still are enduring.We, the ones who are lucky enough to have discovered what is going on behind the walls of the Watchtower entity, are having to do it all again! No big deal! We got used to it, didn't we? The unsavoury looks and condemnation from those on the outside? Now we are getting it from the inside! :confused:I stood up for what I believed at the time to be for God. I'm sure you did too? :read:We actually, should be thankful for that, because it has given us a strength that most others don't actually have. If those still in there are unaware of what is going on, it is not their fault. We didn't know about it either!:huh:
How long did it take for you to get that knowledge? How long did it take you to make a stand? Does it really matter? :thinking: If I'm not mistaken, you have only recently made that stand, right? Well done, Propmin. You did well, and you stood your ground. You stayed loyal to God. :thumbsup: I believe many more will, when the time is right, for them. I also stood my ground on numerous occasions, and left, after having dealt with certain elders involved in unloving and hypocritical behaviour. I stood my ground then, although I knew nothing about the UN or child abuse issues and other unsavoury goings on. I haven't been visited in three years, so, no, I haven't actually been able to state my case. But I have no doubt that I will do so if and when the time comes. I don't fear them anymore. I have no inclination to go warring with them. Why should I? To prove what? I stated my case at the time regarding what I felt, and that's enough for me. I really don't care anymore! Actually, in the meantime, I believe I have been helped to overcome so many of their scriptural reasonings, as you have, and therefore feel well equipped, spiritually speaking, to handle anything now! Three years ago, I didn't know what I know now.:read: I am very grateful for that respite, because I have much more armour in which to fight them with! :ok:I believe many will stand for God's laws rather than man's eventually. Jehovah will make them stand, if they are loyal to Him.Don't you think so? I believe the real persecution has yet to come, Propmin.Where physical death could well be what we are faced with.:( Will we all be able to stand for that kind of persecution?
Who knows? :readthis:I know only one thing, that many have, and not just first century Christians.They all stood their ground, and I'm sure, that Jehovah infused His Holy Spirit into them at that time! Let's not be so quick to judge others without actually knowing them personally, and what they are going through. Each of us will carry our own load, just as Jesus had to.:read:Jehovah will fortify all of us, individually, when that time comes, don't you think so? :read::grouphug::friends:
Christian love and peace to all,
Sister Grateful :giverose:

I agree with you Grateful. There will come a time (during or before the GT perhaps?) when all lovers of righteousness and justice, whether they be Christians, non-Christians or Atheists, will know that it is time to take a stand. Until then, my personal opinion is that it really doesn't matter where you are.

I understand Propmin that recently you have experienced very trying events in your spiritual life, and these events have affected you (and your family) greatly. I have watched others go through similar situations on multiple DBs.

Like you, many of them become very convinced that all persons must take certain actions immediately! After a while, they calm down a bit, and become less frenetic and convinced of their own rightness.

I look forward to meeting that Propmin, and I am confident he will be arriving shortly.

Totally off subject now...last weekend, an elder and his wife were visiting at our home. He mentioned that the Shrek movies are his absolute favorites. I couldn't help but think of how your MIL (I think is was you MIL who said that Satan 'got to you' because you own the movie) would react to that!

Justicia

Hi Justicia,

Re; "I agree with you Grateful. There will come a time (during or before the GT perhaps?) when all lovers of righteousness and justice, whether they be Christians, non-Christians or Atheists, will know that it is time to take a stand. Until then, my personal opinion is that it really doesn't matter where you are."

If something happens that has a resemblance of the Great Tribulation, I´m afraid the result will be that the Witnesses will come closer to the Organisation and towards eachother than ever before rather than leave the Organisation. The reason is that any onslaught from the outside will be interpreted by them as an attack by Satan.

Remember, there is already more than enough for any sincere person to see. That is why we are here, i.e.; because we saw. Many though, have chosen to close their eyes. Many are oblivious to the same things that have devastated us.

When I discover the WT UN affair, the first thing I did was share it with my wife. I showed her everything, but she found those things as an attempt by Satan to snatch her. In the end, she not only end up divorced, but is now much more fanatical in defending the Org than ever before.

Many of the witnesses, regardlass of what is shown them of the secret dealings of the WT, will simply shove all what they see as being not a big deal or as an attack by Satan and stick to the Org, no matter what. And sadly, such ones will be in the majority.

Love,

AR

I don't worry about that AR. Jesus and Jehovah will be in charge and will judge hearts. Remember, a VAST MIXED COMPANY came out of Egypt, and they didn't make a decision until the very last plague.

Even before I learned the truth about the Org., I was always different because I saw Armageddon survivors when out in service, as opposed to many JWs who saw only "goats." Curiously, sometimes I find myself in that same position on this and other DBs; I see our spiritual brothers and sisters who are still totally "in" as those who will make good future choices, while some (such as yourself) see the majority of them making poor choices.

Who was it? Man Hu who spoke of 'leaving one pen for another pen?' It is sad that some can't seem to extricate themselves from a "pen."

Justicia

pen: (–noun Slang)

penitentiary.

------------------

penitentiary: (noun)

1. a place for imprisonment, reformatory discipline, or punishment, esp. a prison maintained in the U.S. by a state or the federal government for serious offenders.

2. Roman Catholic Church. a tribunal in the Curia Romana, presided over by a cardinal (grand penitentiary), having jurisdiction over certain matters, as penance, confession, dispensation, absolution, and impediments, and dealing with questions of conscience reserved for the Holy See.

.02,

gogh

Nami the idea of needing to dissassociate oneself because a religion the establishment may be guilty of things not intentionally or even intentionally could possibly be a guise of the Devil, especially when once done you have no ability to assist those within with you experience and knowledge (as opposed to other religions where it is possible to still help them outside of the religion)

All throughout history the servants of Jehovah the chosen ones of Jehovah have been amongst his people where they have gone from the essence of true worship Jeremiah and many others too many to list you all know of them they didnt get imbittered towards those who thought they were doing right but were wrong and they stayed in the religion because they were humble and not self serving but serving others they stayed to draw people to Jehovah and help people to turn aside form there ways

The people are for the most part sincere and even if you believe some to not be they need comfort and help to draw close to Jehovah and know that Jesus died for them and not just the anointed that they can go to Jehovah you dont have to condemn or outrightly say things are wrong but the watchtowers in itself have articles which give the essence of what needs to be said to help people and be a preacher of righteousness through silent actions and through spoken ones all throughout time Jehovah has had people represent him among nations which were either outright apostate or gone astray and misdirected to submit to

The idea that you need to dissassociate yourself is to be fooled by Satan the master trickster he wants people who know what we know out so that he can overtake the sincere ones enforce legalism and downplay the role of Christ as mediator inflicting sorrow and pain and other such things what we know can bring you down make you an atheist and take you out in some cases or it can make you stronger you can become secure in all things wherever you are and draw people to Jehovah and his loving kindness with all humility

All things are naked and openly exposed in the eyes of Jehovah a time will come when all these things will thus be dissolved and the weak who's faith was based solely upon an organization will crumble at the feet of the devil if no one is there to stop it from happening as for me i shall continue to encourage the friends and those who are truly "sighing and groaning over the condition of this system of things" and direct them towards our father in the heavens

Only if i am compelled by being forced to directly do something contrary to Jehovahs words will i be dissassociated ,Daniel served in babylon working for that world empire there that was wrought with disgusting things yet he even set up jobs for his 3 companions only when called to bow down to the image were they faced with the decision to be punished i trust in Jehovah i will stay and help all i come in contact with in this world of Babylons and draw them to Jehovah

I do believe the majority are sincere (even if only a few arent they worth it) i can bring comfort to them with knowledge that works are not what save us its undeserved kindness and other such truths i can have balance of thought in all matters unwarped by bias of any type and i can do the will of Jehovah

We have the example of Joseph serving in egypt the example of Cornelius the army officer these are just a few example we are not selfish people my dear we are selfless people we do all things for Gods glory and nothing out of self

Self will isolate us self will draw us away from others just to be amongst ourselves,that is not the way that is what Satan wants he wants those with true balanced knowledge to be drawn away from those who need our help and i for one will not let that happen and only when and if Jehovah has me removed from a matter of conscience if im forced to go against that,which if removed all will feel guilt for i will voice the scriptures with full fury and no one will be able to disagree with me scripturally,i will stay and preach the "good news" to all.

So, you mean, like Catholics and Protestants?

I think within them there are some sincere ones too the main thing i talk about is helping people to put not the religion and establishment as there source of strength and faith but Jehovah as that source so when the master "delays" they wont give up and go athiest

Just as some who read ray franz's books do that because there faith isnt based on Jehovah.

Alot of people are still in the mindset that one is right all others who are wrong tho misdirected will die and in the WT mindset of interpretation of some various teachings which indicate do this this way or you die.

It truly is an individual thing all witnesses arent christians (tho i think as a whole moreso than the others its true atleast 50 percent or more especially counting other countries where the basic teachings of love and Christianity the foundational ones are more prominent)

Ive met Catholics and others who i would say are Christian i think before the end of this all there will be an opportunity for each one to take a stand all religion possibly will be removed even witnesses and at that time the ones for Jehovah will be clearly seen even if they arent so advanced spiritually.Theres nothing wrong with being immature spiritually your still spiritual if you dont understand these deep and complex things but love Jehovah above all else than he wont do something wicked as to destroy you.

When that time of demarcation comes those who left will be able to stand for Jehovah alongside those who stayed others who are Christian with wrong ideas will be able to call upon his name and all those who call upon the name of Jehovah will be saved.