Hi All
Hope this writing finds all well. I wanted to talk about 1 Pet 3:21
"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: (KJV)
This is on my mind as a person raised in a church where baptismal regeneration is believed. This is not the case in Jehovah's Witnesses - why not? I don't see how the Ransom covers our personal sins, even if it does convey the free gift of resurrection for all men.
As I understand the Ransom it does not promise that Jesus will atone for our personal sins. These are to be forgiven by belief in the resurrection and baptism, then forgiveness can be had on the terms scripture offers us - confession, repentance, and showing the fruits thereof. Does anyone else have this understanding.
Your Brother in Christ
Son Of Korah
You might enjoy studying the theological spectrum of Justification.
Positional Justification thru Perfected Justification. This will cover the issues on Regeneration.
Hi All
Hope this writing finds all well. I wanted to talk about 1 Pet 3:21
"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: (KJV)
This is on my mind as a person raised in a church where baptismal regeneration is believed. This is not the case in Jehovah's Witnesses - why not? I don't see how the Ransom covers our personal sins, even if it does convey the free gift of resurrection for all men.
As I understand the Ransom it does not promise that Jesus will atone for our personal sins. These are to be forgiven by belief in the resurrection and baptism, then forgiveness can be had on the terms scripture offers us - confession, repentance, and showing the fruits thereof. Does anyone else have this understanding.
Your Brother in Christ
Son Of Korah
I was raised a Catholic, SOK...and I think the big hang-up is infant baptisms. I found this site to be interesting:
http://cnview.com/on_line_resources/bapt...ration.htm
The Council of Trent (1545-63) stated that while Christ "merited for us justification by His most holy passion ... the instrumental cause [of justification/regeneration] is the sacrament of baptism .... If anyone says that baptism is ... not necessary for salvation, let him be anathema." (1) Vatican ll (1962-65) reconfirms all of Trent (2) and reiterates the necessity of baptism for salvation,(3) as does the universal Catechism of the Catholic Church released by the Vatican in 1993. "Baptism is necessary for salvation ... the Church does not know of any [other] means ... that assures entry into eternal beatitude .... "(4)
Trent anathematizes all who deny that "the merit of Jesus Christ is applied ... to infants by the sacrament of baptism" or who deny that by baptism "the guilt of original sin is remitted,,." (5) Today's Code of Canon Law (Canon 849) declares that those baptized are thereby "freed from their sins, are reborn as children of God and .,. incorporated in the Church. " Canon 204 states: "The Christian faithful are those who .. . have been incorporated in Christ through baptism" and are thereby members of the one, true Catholic Church(6)
Of course, regeneration is bigger than infant baptisms. The site points out that there is no record of Jesus baptizing anyone. That would
seem to indicate that baptism isn't necessary for salvation...or so the site says.
Since I left the RCC in the early-seventies, I haven't really gone back to examine church doctrine and tradition. What an overwhelming task!
gus
Since I left the RCC in the early-seventies, I haven't really gone back to examine church doctrine and tradition. What an overwhelming task!
gus
You ain't missing much, Gus....Thanks for the tip, I too was raised Catholic and I am sure that is the source of my wonderment on this concept.
That said - what do you think makes one a Christian? Don't tell me a JW baptism!
Your Pal
Son Of Korah
:clap: Hey Gus!! :clap:
The site points out that there is no record of Jesus baptizing anyone. That would seem to indicate that baptism isn't necessary for salvation...or so the site says.
That is interesting, and original in its reasoning. I was attending a home bible study group, about 2-3 months ago. They were Dispensationalists (not sure what type). Basically they believe that the bible is split into dispensations, and each dispensation is relevant only to the age it talks about. Currently we are in the "Pauline" dispensation. I believe they start from Acts 7 or 8, or something like that! I can understand what they are saying, but I told the pastor dude it wasnt for me -- plus, there was no room for anything "esoteric", which is the case with most mainstream Christian churches anyway (J-DUBS included).
One of the things that got me thinking, was they believed that water baptism was not nearly as important as baptism by Spirit. Here is an excerpt from an article that was given me by the pastor -->
"Most denominational churches ignore Spirit baptism and place their emphasis on water baptism. Water baptism is the main focus of most denominational churches today. It is seen in their doctrinal statements for they say much about water baptism, but very little about Spirit baptism.....Friends, water baptism will get you wet, but it will not change who you are, and what you are, and where you will spend eternity, but Spirit baptism does that and more".
I happen to agree with some of this, if not all of it. I do plan on getting water baptised, but I realise that water baptism in and of itself, is not a requisite for the change within. Yes, I believe it to be an outward manifestation of where one is -- but ive seen enough water baptised J-DUBSs to know that water dont change you. The Spirit does. And what does the Spirit show us? Our Father Jehovah! And who shows us Jehovah? Our Lord Jesus Christ! :thumbsup:
May LOVE be with you!
your bro -- beau! :friends::friends::friends:
PS -- No, im not a dispensationalist. I stopped going to the studies long ago. Too much like the Watchtower. ;)