Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

:wave: This is such a good thread I thought I'd just bump it to the top for others who might not've seen it yet. (wow- it's over 2 years old!)

Re-reading it makes me miss our dear brother 'Gus' sooooo much - what a wit and an invaluable part of my spiritual awareness and growth he was. I sure miss him.:crybaby:

I was happy, tho', to know that our brother Yannis overcame those who hounded him then and he has now found a measure of peace in his faith. That is so important, isn't it? It is, it is.:yes:

:thumbup: Cool, Beau - this came up in Wednesday's Daily text -
Joshua 1:9: "Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous! Do not tremble or be dismayed, for the LORD your God is with you wherever you go." :thumbsup:

:heartbeat:Love to you all,
:peace:

Thanks Willa :hug:

I forgot all about this thread and what my mindset was two years ago.

Since then i eventually got disfellowshipped and converted to Greek Orthodox. No one, not even me, would have predicted either five years ago.

The Spirit leads you where He wants you to go i guess. :thinking:

What Gus said to me was so true. He said, "You don't read the Bible to pass a test or articulate admirable answers. You read the Bible to come to know Jesus. Walk away from the academic approach and the Lord will jump into your life with both feet."

Isnt that what it's all about?

This topic is also one I must have missed.

'We are discussing tonight, Sunday 14th the nuances of the word "death" in the Bible - what does it mean to "die to this world", to "pass from death to life", to be "written in the Book of Life"?'

What I find interesting is that the book of life ....grows.

Revelation 20:12
and other little biblion book was opened up, which is of the life.

After the sea, hades and thanatos (the god of death) give up their dead, thanatos and hades are cast into the lake of fire including those not found in the book biblo of the life.

So by verse 15 in Rev. 20 the little book has expanded and becomes the book of life.

If we translate this as scroll, rather than book it is easier to understand.
When a scribe came to the end of a scroll, he would paste another piece on, and continue writing. The scroll though would become larger and larger.

vicky

Interesting words repeated again here the same ones that are found in the opening of the book with one word that really sticks out to me
" Keys".

Rev 1
9 I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, 11 saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”
12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; 15 His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; 16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.


I think we can see the keys in John 8

49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me. 50 And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges. 51 Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.” 52 Then the Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon! Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and You say, ‘If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.’ 53 Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Who do You make Yourself out to be?”

54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him.


( They thought they knew God but were Religious and lost )


And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word.

( The only one to perfectly keep it )

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.


I think the key to " the Keys " is seen in the statement.

Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.”

Since we all know we cannot escape the first death ( bad odds 1 out of every 1 people will die ) the keys my be to the second death.

So I guess a good question would be what does He mean by " Keeping His word "?


There are some interesting words in Psalm 89 that seem to shed some light onto this area of Scripture.


1 I will sing of the mercies of the LORD forever;
With my mouth will I make known Your faithfulness to all generations.
2 For I have said, “Mercy shall be built up forever;
Your faithfulness You shall establish in the very heavens.”
3 “I have made a covenant with My chosen,
I have sworn to My servant David:
4 ‘Your seed I will establish forever,
And build up your throne to all generations.’” Selah

5 And the heavens will praise Your wonders, O LORD;
Your faithfulness also in the assembly of the saints.
6 For who in the heavens can be compared to the LORD?
Who among the sons of the mighty can be likened to the LORD?
7 God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints,
And to be held in reverence by all those around Him.
8 O LORD God of hosts,
Who is mighty like You, O LORD? Your faithfulness also surrounds You.
9 You rule the raging of the sea;
When its waves rise, You still them. 10 You have broken Rahab in pieces, as one who is slain;
You have scattered Your enemies with Your mighty arm.

11 The heavens are Yours, the earth also is Yours;
The world and all its fullness, You have founded them.
12 The north and the south, You have created them; Tabor and Hermon rejoice in Your name.
13 You have a mighty arm;
Strong is Your hand, and high is Your right hand.
14 Righteousness and justice are the foundation of Your throne;
Mercy and truth go before Your face. 15 Blessed are the people who know the joyful sound!
They walk, O LORD, in the light of Your countenance.[u] 16 In Your name they rejoice all day long,
And in Your righteousness they are exalted.
17 For You are the glory of their strength,
And in Your favor our horn is exalted.
18 For our shield belongs to the LORD,
And our king to the Holy One of Israel.
19 Then You spoke in a vision to Your holy one,
And said: “I have given help to one who is mighty;
I have exalted one chosen from the people.
20 I have found My servant David;
With My holy oil I have anointed him, 21 With whom My hand shall be established;
Also My arm shall strengthen him.
22 The enemy shall not outwit him,
Nor the son of wickedness afflict him.
23 I will beat down his foes before his face,
And plague those who hate him.

24 “But My faithfulness and My mercy shall be with him,
And in My name his horn shall be exalted.
25 Also I will set his hand over the sea,
And his right hand over the rivers.
26 He shall cry to Me, ‘You are my Father,
My God, and the rock of my salvation.’
27 Also I will make him My firstborn,
The highest of the kings of the earth.
28 My mercy I will keep for him forever,
And My covenant shall stand firm with him.
29 His seed also I will make to endure forever,
And his throne as the days of heaven.
30 “If his sons forsake My law
And do not walk in My judgments,
31 If they break My statutes
And do not keep My commandments,
32 Then I will punish their transgression with the rod,
And their iniquity with stripes.
33 Nevertheless My lovingkindness I will not utterly take from him,
Nor allow My faithfulness to fail.
34 My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.
35 Once I have sworn by My holiness;
I will not lie to David:
36 His seed shall endure forever,
And his throne as the sun before Me;37 It shall be established forever like the moon,
Even like the faithful witness in the sky.” Selah



38 But You have cast off and abhorred,
You have been furious with Your anointed.
39 You have renounced the covenant of Your servant;
You have profaned his crown by casting it to the ground.
40 You have broken down all his hedges;
You have brought his strongholds to ruin.
41 All who pass by the way plunder him;
He is a reproach to his neighbors.
42 You have exalted the right hand of his adversaries;
You have made all his enemies rejoice.
43 You have also turned back the edge of his sword,
And have not sustained him in the battle.
44 You have made his glory cease,
And cast his throne down to the ground.
45 The days of his youth You have shortened;
You have covered him with shame. Selah

46 How long, LORD?
Will You hide Yourself forever?
Will Your wrath burn like fire?
47 Remember how short my time is;
For what futility have You created all the children of men?
48 What man can live and not see death?
Can he deliver his life from the power of the grave? Selah

( I think the answer is found in Rev 20 )

49 Lord, where are Your former lovingkindnesses,
Which You swore to David in Your truth?
50 Remember, Lord, the reproach of Your servants—
How I bear in my bosom the reproach of all the many peoples,
51 With which Your enemies have reproached, O LORD,
With which they have reproached the footsteps of Your anointed.

52 Blessed be the LORD forevermore!
Amen and Amen.


Just a few thoughts.

BB

He did not... It is a parable, but Jesus is not discussing even in parabolic form a place of eternal torment or immortal souls. He is protraying the Nation of Israel and it's being cast off. The rich man is a representation of Judah and Benjamin (as tribes).... namely, those who Jesus came a preached to... and the 5 brothers are the other 10 tribes. The rich man sat at his table and was well fed, as God had favorably attended to Israel and their needs for centuries, but the poor beggar (the heathen) came to take his place after being cast off (O Jerusalem, Jerusalem....!) and the Gospel church was then selected from amongst the Gentiles instead of the Israelites. The Jew were in torment for all of those centuries of disfavor while the Gentiles feasted on their Bible.

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. Revelation 3:21

If we die faithful and true to our Father, we will do the same thing Jesus did.

I believe we are already living in a hell school, to learn to live right whille still human flesh.. When we finally overcome this world through the regeneration, in a new spirit, and have learned to become childlike, obeying our Father's will with all our hearts given to Him fully, then we have overcame this old world. Our spirits ..who we really are while on earth, go back to God at the time of our deaths of the physical flesh, because our cord has been broken from the earth. Our thoughts perish on earth the day we die, everything we were doing up till the time of death stops, and our spirit moves on, and can no longer look back to the things left behind, for we are a new creation. We are now spirit in a higher dimension, and have returned to source.


Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 (King James Version)

5. Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:

6. Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

7. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:
(and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.)

Love,
New Heart