06-15-2007, 07:08 PM
smoldering wick Wrote:
As an addendum to this thread, I add this one final thought. It was Paul who applied baptism to an ancient example—not Peter. And it wasn’t Noah’s ark. It was the Red Sea:
“Now I do not want YOU to be ignorant, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea and all got baptized into Moses by means of the cloud and of the sea; and all ate the same spiritual food and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they used to drink from the spiritual rock-mass that followed them, and that rock-mass meant the Christ. Nevertheless, on most of them God did not express his approval, for they were laid low in the wilderness.” (Corinthians 10:1-5)
And so what do we conclude? That baptism into Moses was the same as being saved? It was true that they brought safely through the Red Sea. But that was just the beginning. As Paul stated: “On most of them God did not express his approval, for they were laid low in the wilderness,” despite their baptism! And if we read on, Paul is using this very thing to demonstrate what disaster could happen AFTER baptism. No guarantee—no indelible, permanent, “once saved always saved” salvation. He says:
“Now these things became our examples, for us not to be persons desiring injurious things, even as they desired them. Neither become idolaters, as some of them did; just as it is written: ‘The people sat down to eat and drink, and they got up to have a good time.’ Neither let us practice fornication, as some of them committed fornication, only to fall, twenty-three thousand in one day. Neither let us put Jehovah to the test, as some of them put [him] to the test, only to perish by the serpents. Neither be murmurers, just as some of them murmured, only to perish by the destroyer. Now these things went on befalling them as examples, and they were written for a warning to us upon whom the ends of the systems of things have arrived.” (1 Corinthians 10:6-11)
Another translation states this with greater impact:
“The same thing could happen to us. We must be on guard so that we never get caught up in wanting our own way as they did. And we must not turn our religion into a circus as they did—‘First the people partied, then they threw a dance.’ We must not be sexually promiscuous—they paid for that, remember, with 23,000 deaths in one day! We must never try to get Christ to serve us instead of us serving him; they tried it, and God launched an epidemic of poisonous snakes. We must be careful not to stir up discontent; discontent destroyed them.
“These are all warning markers—danger!—in our history books, written down so that we don't repeat their mistakes. Our positions in the story are parallel—they at the beginning, we at the end—and we are just as capable of messing it up as they were. Don't be so naive and self-confident. You're not exempt. You could fall flat on your face as easily as anyone else. Forget about self-confidence; it's useless. Cultivate God-confidence.” (The Message Bible)
My conclusion? Baptism is only a gateway—just the beginning of those becoming Christian. It has nothing to do with one’s ultimate salvation. What follows must be endured to the end—either of life or the world. The entire “dedication” doctrine is an embellishment, a distortion to control the masses.
“Now I do not want YOU to be ignorant, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea and all got baptized into Moses by means of the cloud and of the sea; and all ate the same spiritual food and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they used to drink from the spiritual rock-mass that followed them, and that rock-mass meant the Christ. Nevertheless, on most of them God did not express his approval, for they were laid low in the wilderness.” (Corinthians 10:1-5)
And so what do we conclude? That baptism into Moses was the same as being saved? It was true that they brought safely through the Red Sea. But that was just the beginning. As Paul stated: “On most of them God did not express his approval, for they were laid low in the wilderness,” despite their baptism! And if we read on, Paul is using this very thing to demonstrate what disaster could happen AFTER baptism. No guarantee—no indelible, permanent, “once saved always saved” salvation. He says:
“Now these things became our examples, for us not to be persons desiring injurious things, even as they desired them. Neither become idolaters, as some of them did; just as it is written: ‘The people sat down to eat and drink, and they got up to have a good time.’ Neither let us practice fornication, as some of them committed fornication, only to fall, twenty-three thousand in one day. Neither let us put Jehovah to the test, as some of them put [him] to the test, only to perish by the serpents. Neither be murmurers, just as some of them murmured, only to perish by the destroyer. Now these things went on befalling them as examples, and they were written for a warning to us upon whom the ends of the systems of things have arrived.” (1 Corinthians 10:6-11)
Another translation states this with greater impact:
“The same thing could happen to us. We must be on guard so that we never get caught up in wanting our own way as they did. And we must not turn our religion into a circus as they did—‘First the people partied, then they threw a dance.’ We must not be sexually promiscuous—they paid for that, remember, with 23,000 deaths in one day! We must never try to get Christ to serve us instead of us serving him; they tried it, and God launched an epidemic of poisonous snakes. We must be careful not to stir up discontent; discontent destroyed them.
“These are all warning markers—danger!—in our history books, written down so that we don't repeat their mistakes. Our positions in the story are parallel—they at the beginning, we at the end—and we are just as capable of messing it up as they were. Don't be so naive and self-confident. You're not exempt. You could fall flat on your face as easily as anyone else. Forget about self-confidence; it's useless. Cultivate God-confidence.” (The Message Bible)
My conclusion? Baptism is only a gateway—just the beginning of those becoming Christian. It has nothing to do with one’s ultimate salvation. What follows must be endured to the end—either of life or the world. The entire “dedication” doctrine is an embellishment, a distortion to control the masses.
