Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Hi Folks

A while back I came across a remarkable link, which highlighted research by the Knox Theological Seminary called the John-Revelation Project.

Many people down the ages have questioned both the canonicity of Revelation (should it actually be in the Bible?) and its authorship (was it written be the apostle John, or a different John?)

Through their research, the Seminary's John-Revelation Project demonstrated a remarkable structural similarity between the gospel of John, and the book of Revelation.

In their own words:

"The thesis of these papers is that John's Gospel and his Revelation are one enterprise by the same author. Together they constitute a literary diptych*. Consequently, both the Fourth Gospel and the Apocalypse have been composed by one author in a conscious interdependence upon one another."

* diptych - an ancient writing tablet having two leaves hinged together.

...

Now the thesis that the two great works traditionally attributed to the fisherman son of Zebedee are interdependent has significant interpretive implication. Such a claim would mean that neither the Gospel nor Revelation was intended as a stand-alone document. If these books were conceived and composed as a diptych, then John will help us to interpret Revelation and Revelation will be crucial to completing our understanding of John's Gospel as well.

In other words, the gospel and the Revelation were not only written by the same person, but were actually written in such a way as to help to interpret one another!

This research is presented in 7 papers, and the results get more remarkable as they go on.

For instance, in Paper 3 they demonstrate what they call consecutive correspondences, ie. "significant words, word combinations, and phrases that track between the two companion books, as they are read consecutively and side-by-side".

"In fact, we will claim that if they are read alongside each other, as the church fathers suggested, they will interpret each other..."

To give a couple of examples from the 6th and 7th chapters:

(John) 6:7-9 "Two hundred denarii worth of bread…five barley loaves"
(Revelation) 6:6 "A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius"

(John) 6:15 "when Jesus perceived that they were about to come and take Him by force to make Him king, He withdrew to the mountain by Himself"
(Revelation) 6:15 "the kings…the great men…rich men… commanders…mighty men…hid themselves in the mountains"

(John) 6:18, 27 "And the sea was stirred…a great wind was blowing…for this one has God the Father sealed"
(Revelation) 7: 1-3 "so that no wind should blow on the earth or on the sea…until we have sealed the servants of God"

(John) 6:35 "He who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst"
(Revelation) 7:16 "they shall hunger no more, neither thirst anymore"

(John) 7:38 "rivers of living water will flow from him"
(Revelation) 7:17 He "will lead them to springs of the water of life"

(Note that exact chapter parallels are not correspondencies by themselves, since the chapter divisions were later inventions.)

In Paper 4 they demonstrate chiastic correspondences:

"A chiasm is a literary pattern that involves an inverted parallelism of words or ideas.  In chiastic patterning, the beginning of one book contains clusters of shared vocabulary and themes with the end of the second book; and similarly, the beginning of the second book contains paralleled vocabulary and themes found at the end of the first book.  The Gospel of John and Revelation are written throughout in an elaborate chiastic pattern, producing the effect of each book being a mirror image of the other. Together, the consecutive and the chiastic patterns constitute the warp and woof of the Johannine interweaving."

There is much more, but I will give you the link for you to discover it all yourself.

To me, this demonstrates that the apostle John was the author of both works, and that more importantly, either by divine inspiration or otherwise, both books were meant to be read in conjuction with one another.

Here is the link:
http://www.knoxseminary.org/Prospective/...index.html

My favourite part of all, is the dramatic correspondence between John chapter 19, and Revelation 19. The 19th chapter of John's gospel is the most tragic of all - Jesus is mocked, wearing a purple robe, a crown of thorns, and is finally put to death. The governor Pontius Pilate writing a title above Jesus' broken body, which said: "JESUS OF NAZARETH. THE KING OF THE JEWS."

In a beautifully symmetrical consecutive correspondence, the 19th chapter of the apostle John's Revelation presents the glorified Jesus Christ...

"behold…He who was called Faithful and True…and on His head were many diadems, and His robe was dipped in blood"... "On His outer garment…a name was written, 'KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS'.

Now that's a happy ending! :thumbsup:

Dear Interpretum

Well this 'diptych' concept is certainly a new one on me; i'm in favour of reading about different approaches to our understanding of Revelation and will have to find time to peruse this info.

Obviously a great deal of work has gone into their research and it certainly shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.
It clearly underlines mens continued pursuit of unlocking the secrets contained in John's writings doesn't it!!

Ultimately though i believe that much of Revelation's content will only be understood 'after the fact'.
Our Creator clearly wants us to come to an accurate knowledge of things and be happy in our reading of all these writings but at this stage i feel that too many anomalies are thwarting our efforts.
We can employ thousands of teams of spiritual forensic investigators and still not reach a general concensus of opinion on "Daniel", "Ezekiel" and "Revelation".
Mankind should however be congratulated for its dogged pursuit of 'cracking the code'!

Nick

I found the same thing in Matthew roughly between the 'red letters' and the 'black letters'.

In 5.1 he goes up the mountain in 8.1 he goes down the mountain.
Then "blessed are the poor in spirit" and he heals a leper
"Blessed are the meek" and the Centurion meekly asks him to heal his servant.

The next block starts with 12.1 and 18.1

And the last block with 23.1 and 26.2

The last block suggests a different eschatology.

I found some old notes:

The book of Matthew can be broken into four blocks:

1. Jesus as King or Here comes the King! Matt 1-4
2. Sermon on the mount or Who is in His Kingdom? Matt 5 - 11:27
3. Nature of the Kingdom of God or His Kingdom is not of this world. Matt 12-22
4. Matthew's Eschatology or His Kingdom Established. Matt 23-28

The last three blocks are written in parallel outlines which are identified by words or concepts shared between sequences of verses.

For example:
In the second block, Matt 5:1 parallels Matt 8:1 by the imagery of Jesus going up and down the mountain.
This alone would not be a significant fact were it to stand alone. But if the sequence of linking passages that continues through the rest of the book is real, then what is the message that Matthew is attempting to show us?

Although there are interesting sermons that can be preached by discerning parallel passages. The greatest interest concerns Matthew's eschatology. Beginning in the fourth block, I will title scripture subject pairs, highlight the primary verses that link them and explain the connection if it isn't obvious.

1 Religious leaders work to be seen of men.
Matt 23:1-7 || Matt 26:1-5
Verse 23: 5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men
Verse 26: 5 But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar among the people.
Obvious connection.

2 The humble shall be exalted.
Matt 23:8-12 || Matt 26:6-13
Matt 23: 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
Matt : 13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.
The woman, who humbled herself in anointing Jesus, was exalted

3 Judas worse than Pharisees
Matt 23:13-33 || Matt 26:14-25
Matt 23: 15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Matt 26: 24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.
With all the incidents involving Pharisees, he never told one of them it would have been better if he had not been born, but Judas was "twofold more the child of hell."

4 Disciples sent.., Blood
Matt 23:34-36 || Matt 26:26-28
Matt 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
The disciples mentioned in Matt 26 were the ones he was sending out. Also there is use of the word "blood" in both passages as a hint of the linking.

5 Desolate - Jesus is going away
Matt 23:37-39 || Matt 26:29-30
Matt 23: 38,39 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Matt 26: 29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.
Matthew 23:38 identifies the desolation as the absence of Jesus himself.

6 Scattering of stones and disciples
Matt 24:1,2 ||Matt 26:31
Matt 24: 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Matt 26: 31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.
Other scriptures say that we are the stones in the house that Christ built. So the scattering of the disciples matches the scattering of the stones.

7 He is coming - when he is risen
Matt 24:3 || Matt 26:32
Matt 24: 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Matt 26: 32 But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee.
The structure now points to the resurrection as his coming.


8 The beginning of sorrows
Matt 24:4-10 || Matt 26:33-38
Matt 24: 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Matt 26: 38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
The structure points to Jesus's sorrow as the beginning of sorrow.

9 The love of many shall wax cold
Matt 24:11-12 || Matt 26:39-44
Matt 24: 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Matt 26: 43 And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy.
His own disciples love for him was cold that they could not stay awake to pray with him.

10 The gospel
Matt 24:13-14 || Matt 26:45
Matt 24: 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Matt 26: 45 Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.
The gospel that is preached in all the world is that a Holy God became man and died at the hands of sinners.

11 The abomination of desolation
Matt 24:15 || Matt 26:46-50
Matt 24: 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Matt 26: 48 Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast.
Judas' kiss was an abomination since it is what condemned the just. Pr 17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD. Is this the abomination that caused desolation?

12 Flee
Matt 24:16-20 || Matt 26:51-56
Matt 24: 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Matt 26: 56 But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.

13 Tribulation
Matt 24:21-22 || Matt 26:57 ââ‚“ 27-14
Matt 24: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
The structure points to the tribulation of Jesus. What greater tribulation is theoretically possible than that of a Holy God placed in the hands of sinners, and becoming sin?
They rushed Jesus to death. Had they not shortened the days of his tribulation, and he died in prison, no flesh anywhere or anytime would have been saved.

14 The desolation
Matt 24:23-28 || Matt 27:15-44
Matt 24: 23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matt 27: 16 And they had then a notable prisoner, called Barabbas.
When Barrabas and Jesus are presented to Israel, Israel casts their sin on him and he becomes sin incarnate.

15 The sun is darkened
Matt 24:29 || Matt 27:45-49
Matt 24: 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven,
Matt 27: 45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.

16 The veil/his body is rent
Matt 24:29b || Matt 27:
Matt 24:29.and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matt 27: 50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

17 He comes in the clouds
Matt 24:30 || Matt 27:62-66
Matt 24: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matt 27: 66 So they went, and made the sepulchre sure, sealing the stone, and setting a watch.
This is an odd one, while every one will see him coming in the clouds, they are watching a grave. Is it possible that when we die, we see him in the clouds?

18 Gathering of saints
Matt 24:31 || Matt 28:1-20
Matt 24: 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matt 28: 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
After gathering his disciples, he sent them out to harvest.

19 Jesus didn't lie
Matt 24:32-34
Matt 24: 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
All of the parallel passages that Matthew pointed to happened within weeks.


20 Heaven and earth shall pass away
Matt 24:35 || Matt 28:20b
Matt 24: 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Matt 28:20b .I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
If he is with us always, and we see him in the air when we die, what need is there for another returning?

If the parallels are real, do they say that we are in the harvest now? Will we be individually harvested by Christ who is able to sort the wheat and the tares. When there are two in the field and one is taken, to us it looks like he died. When two are in bed and one is taken, it looks like one went to be with the Lord in his sleep.

Presumably, when we die, we are transported from time to eternity. As we look to our left, Adam has just barely arrived, and as we look to our right all our children and progeny are there too. We have been immediately transported to the end of the age.

The rest of Matt 24 and 25 say "Be ready". So we should be more concerned about being ready to die, than learning to fly.

In fact, I also found the parallels between Gen 1 and one of the Psalms, except in Gen 1 there was no hint of sin, and in the Psalm it indicted the fall and redemption on day six. I have to dig for those notes.