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I wish I knew to whom I could give credit for this piece:

http://www.phlux.net/bboard/message-5101.html

Sarcasm is the epitome of passive-aggression. It is by its nature provocative. Like poking someone with a stick, or waving a flag, the [sarcastic person] provokes with their words. Failure to respond to their verbal jabs may be met with even more ridicule, more sarcasm. Oddly the mocking contempt of sarcasm makes one feel alternately like you “should” respond, silly if you “didn’t” respond, sorry if you “do” respond. The victim cannot win.

Sarcasm can be both witty and intelligent; that’s what makes it so brutal. You can bet your ass that the [sarcastic person] MEANT to hurt you. Sarcasm is a craft honed by the wordsmith; it does not happen by accident. It is a tool, wielded with deliberation – like a knife or a gun. Rest assured, if you are plagued by a [sarcastic person], they know what they are doing. Sarcasm has to have a fall guy to even exist. If you are in the same room as a [sarcastic person], you could end up the fall guy. That’s just the risk. A hunter is not a hunter without prey.

You cannot be unguarded, you cannot feel safe, around a [sarcastic person]. Because you aren’t safe. Know that.

Sarcasm exists on both the verbal and the non-verbal plane. In addition to witty, ironic, cutting remarks, the [sarcastic person] rolls their eyes, clucks, sneers, sighs, shakes their head and laughs under their breath. It’s infuriating. For the born again human who wants to relinquish their sarcastic bully, this non-verbal feedback must also be addressed.

Because here’s the deal: Sarcasm is hurtful and causes permanent damage. Directed at others, it hurts Others; directed at one’s Self, it hurts one’s Self.

Sarcasm springs from a pessimistic hopelessness of spirit. It is the by-product of a judgmental nature. It is both “Outlook” and “Habit”. The [sarcastic person] can change their outlook, but they must first change their judgmental habits. If you want to release sarcasm you must recognize this. If you want to release someone who is sarcastic, you must recognize this.

Thoughts?

gus

my thoughts are that I do Not like sarcasm. I never did. I have a daughter who used to think it was kind of funny and would do a zinger on a regular basis and laughs now remembering me asking her if she had any plans to outgrow the sarcastic phase she was going through. We laugh because it lasted a long time and I asked her day after day after day--like any bad habit it is hard to break. I find it to be a very hurtful form of communication meant to make the 'victim' feel small--I find it demeaning. I read once that sarcasm is the Lowest form of humour and I agree with that. I also know a few people who are really good at sarcastic remarks thinking they are witty and funny--I feel very uncomfortable in their presence--but then I don't like to make people feel uncomfortable nor do I like to make people feel small--I don't think sarcasm is very nice--and instead of being humourous all around it often makes people angry. Sometimes the opening is there kind of by accident to make a sarcastic remark but self-control and putting the feelings of the other person First would rule if one wanted to cultivate self-control and they were bent towards sarcasm. I personally have wondered why someone who wanted to develop themselves would hang onto a sarcastic nature--but that's just me--and that's a few of my thoughts...sarcasm?--not so good........:friends:

Hi Gus,
I thought the piece was interesting but personally I do not think things are always so cut and dried with black and white divisions as the article indicates.

Vicious hurtful sarcasm should always be avoided.

I think there are many shades of grey between black and white.

In Britain, particularly in the area where I live, (I cannot speak for the South of England) there is a culture of using, what could be seen from the outside as very cutting banter. Often two people who really like each other engage in banter particularly in the presence of others.   One intuitively knows when the boundary has been overstepped and the intention was not nice.

Also black humour, wit, irony, Socratic irony and the like are common devices used here.
Socratic humour is the pretence of ignorance to perhaps? disarm others… My wife pulled me up short about using it once.

Black humour is used to good effect between members of the health service when they face people with dire health situations every day.  Some cancer patients joke about their condition, but for someone, a none sufferer, to joke to a person with cancer would be inappropriate.

I remember telling a guy once I was on testosterone blocking therapy for my cancer and he quipped, “Are you I singing soprano like a choirboy yet?” I personally didn’t think he had made a funny comment. Perhaps emasculation would help him to improve his sense of humour?


One of the facilitators here used to have a legend on her avatar, “supreme twerplet” and others use similar devices, using apparent self-mockery.  The device refers to the person’s sense of humour or another facet of their personality and is obviously not an assessment of their abilities.

It is all a question of balance, intention and cultural background.  Some will see a remark as cutting when it is intended to bring an argument to bear.

I reckon we know when others over step the bounds and their comments have ‘no salt in them’.

I saw the irony in the situation of cats being susceptible to bird flu on a thread on EW.
To me it seemed an ironic judgement on the cat, the arch killer of birds, for them to get bird flu and die as a result of their act in killing birds. My post upset someone quite a lot and I was sorry.

But it is easy to be oversensitive to the comments of others.
Peace and blessings
Derek

I'm one that can be sarcastic. I usually try to do it in a joking setting though, and not when I am discussing something serious. There is a fine line between it being funny, or it being taken badly.

When having a serious discussion, sarcasm is usually not funny. When you are attacking someone's strong beliefs in a sarcastic way it is often damaging and comes off judgmental. It is also just plain cheap.

If one is constantly sarcastic in serious debates, it often means they don't have much else to stand on, and can't adequately debate you.

Hi Derek,

I agree with you. Wit can be used in a balanced way. The article seemed a little too black and white.

Jesus used sarcasm and humor on several occasions. For instance: "straining the gnat, gulping the camel", "the speck and the rafter", etc.

My grandpa was a master at using sarcasm. He knew when to use it, how to use it, and how far to go with it. And it usually made people laugh. But he always got is point across.

Some people don't know how to be sarcastic and they just sound stupid. They're just overly offensive and caustic and then hide behind the veil of "I was just joking." So not only do they sound stupid, they're insincere to boot.

Spud

Sarcasm is merely a linguistic tool. It can be constructive or destructive. The real villain (imo) is ridicule. People who ridicule often employ sarcasm.

But even ridicule does not encompass what that article is describing. That article describes the passive-aggressive personality disorder. It is the personality disorder that is at fault, not the tools that the disturbed individual is choosing to employ in order to bully people into their schemes.

I think if we looked real close we could find examples of sarcasm in many of the posts on this forum that do not cause offence or harm. We could also find others that do.

I also believe there are various types of sarcasm, some being very funny indeed. I am also originally from the north of England, as is Derek, and believe me, most of the people there use it with mind boggling brilliance! In general, English people have a wonderful sense of humour and it can be so funny, when it is not aimed at hurting. :ok:Unfortunately, there are those who use their twisted minds with intent to hurt, and that, as we all know, isn't acceptable whatsoever, and most certainly is never, ever, funny.:( I find these people quite sad, and pathetic,and consequently,I have now learned how to cope.with them. Just ignore them, and they'll be at a loss as to what to do next to irritate you! In a way,ignoring them reminds me of the scripture whch says to heap fiery coals on their heads! Romans12:17-21 :read:That's how you get back at them! :ok: They just can't cope with anyone ignoring their vitriol, it really gets to them.:ok: Sometimes though, :D I can't resist the challenge, :(and unfortunately, fall victim to the verbal animosity, and retaliate! :(:blush: Yes, I can be just as verbally aggressive as they are, and worse, as I believe most of us here can be.But I have tamed my impulses and don't do it very often, unless they get me on a bad day!;)The Bible has positively helped me to be calmer and to control my emotions more than when I was younger.:read:And, I have to say, I would never, ever, initiate a sarcastic remark, with intent to hurt anyone. No, it is not something a sarcastic person should be proud of, :( and most certainly isn't something to boast about. :shocked: :( We all know as Christians, that our words should always be seasoned with salt, all in good taste and upbuilding to the person listening. Definitely, sprinkled with love and respect. :eat:Humour is great when used wisely and intelligently (and we could all do wth good laugh, couldn't we? Thanks Bangalore for your funny posts each day! :D) but when it isn't used to upbuild, it simply isn't appealing in the least, just appalling!

Nice thread Gus. Thanks.:ok::thumbsup:

Agape to all,
Sister Grateful:giverose::funnyface:

Kudos. Good post. :)

Derek,
I picke this out of the points you were making with Gus's intro:

One of the facilitators here used to have a legend on her avatar, “supreme twerplet” and others use similar devices, using apparent self-mockery. The device refers to the person’s sense of humour or another facet of their personality and is obviously not an assessment of their abilities.

The line I want to jump on is this: and is obviously not an assessment of their abilities.

I don't know about you, whether or not you like or dislike the "Supreme Twerplet" or not, (I happen to be crazy about her--in a good way of course), but your comment to me was just like Gus said, a hunter looking for prey. No one in the room is safe.

Do you think your comment was sarcastic?

For a joke, I looked pretty hard at Gus's post for an opportunity to take a good natured shot at him, as I like him and enjoy the banter. But to bring in Vicky was probably a fairly nasty thing to do. But...for all I know, you and she are great friends and she had a good laugh over your comment. I hope that is the case.

Your Bro,

Brant

reading this I had a little thought :hibye: and I am thinking we don't always use the word sarcasm in the same way--perhaps it means different things to different people. I use it regarding the kind of 'humour' that belittles and demeans another--not witty and or funny comments that everyone laughs at. I object when one becomes a target of another and then they get hurt--or when someone senses a weakness in someone and zeros in on that--a sense of humour is a Wonderful thing and has saved many people in untold ways to carry on--but--the true form of sarcasm is not so good and very hurtful which the author of this article was writing about....genuine laughter is a wonderful avenue for all of us--and very healthy too--just not at the expense of another -- :grouphug:

I do suspect there is a difference between American English 'sarcasm' and British English 'sarcasm'. It seems to be (based on minimal research) that British English 'sarcasm' is more equivalent to American English 'irony'.

Interestingly in this article:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4384734.stm

We have a reference to its use in the Bible by Elijah:

Hi Wibble :hibye: I agree with you :love: we don't always mean the same thing by that word. I use it in a very narrow context and specifically and not for things that are witty or even ironic----I also maintain that if one can keep their sense of humour they can endure most anything :hibye:

Might sarcasm that is meant to be humorous and not taken seriously, be described as facetious/ness?

a quote:

"Facetious suggests a desire or attempt to be jocular or witty but not to be taken seriously: a facetious remark. Waggish suggests the spirit of sly mischief and roguery of the constant joker, with no harm intended: a waggish good humor."