Paradise Café Discussions A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Hello everyone,

I've noticed that some of our board members seem to feel that Jesus died on a cross rather than a stake.

I have always felt that the WT gave strong evidence that Jesus died on a stake without a cross beam, citing the Greek word 'stauros'.

I was wondering if we could have a discussion about this, and for anyone who does believe it was a cross, can you please share your basis for this?

Looking forward to your responses.

Agape
Lou

At one time I would have found it rather important to know this fact. But the reality is, it makes not one jot of importance. Christ died for us, he was raised again, and ascended to heaven then to pour out the spirit. We can have a relationship with him.

The shape of the wood he died on is the absolutely and completely the least important factor of those things mentioned above.

Peace in Christ,
Andrew

Well since all Archeological, Biblical,, and the word of mouth tradition of the Church, point to Jesus dying on a Cross, then I think the oness is on those who say that Jesus died on a stake to prove otherwise.


The Society has not done that in the least. What they have shown is that some people have been executed on poles. There is no evidence to show that Jesus did. Unless you believe that just because Chrsitendom says he died on a Cross, he must not have.

What's the Greek word for "cross"?

Stauros

'Nuff said, as far as I'm concerned.

"Religion" invents "issues."

Worshipers just worship.

iso...

Christian tradition, nails plural in the hands, sign over head, Biblical allusions to Christ's sacrifice indicating outstretched arms, common Roman execution practice of the time, that Jesus had to carry his execution device to the site, that he did so at least part way.

I guess that in brief is my reasons for accepting something of a cross shape as opposed to a single stake; however, I don't see any reason to make it as big of a deal as the WT would like to make it.

The WT's arguments though are pretty much deflated by the question that John already asked,

If it was a cross shape and not a pole what Greek word would the Bible writers have used instead?

Though I'll have to side with WOTS and ISOMAN for me it is pretty much a non-issue.

Want to know what the real issue is. The Society wanted to make it look as though they had inside knowledge concerning the matter. They made the issue. What they say has no basis in reality, so people believe the falsehood, and think the Society has some of the "hidden manna".  they have some secrest insight that Jehovah has given them, and for all these years Christendom has had it wrong and the Society had to come along and fix it. BALONEY.

When it can be demonstrated that the Society is wrong..........then it becomes "not important".

I don't know why "Christendom" and "the Society" argue with each other so much. They have much more in common than they think.

Hi Anthony,
While I agree that it is not as important HOW Jesus died,( although it IS important), as much as that He did, die. I think it is just a little disengenuous that the "Pole crowd" ways it's not that important, when the evidence in stacked against them. For me it is just a way of deflecting that, they, or the Society, or both, are just plain wrong on this issue.

Mad replies: Get with it IKH! The only BALONEY seems to be in the sandwich you're wolfing down! I wanted to find fault with that, as well, but, just when I thought I found nothing more conclusive than the Greek word for STAKE used EVERY SINGLE TIME (Acts/Tree, the exception, cu/lon- Cross NEVER used), one last history book at the library I checked (30 years ago!) pointed out, that while the Roman Soldiers almost always used crosses- there WAS an exception! (If you're a Cross-a-holic, please read no further!)...when attacking a city, they levelled the forrests around it to make the wall of stakes, and sometines there JUST wasn't enough wood for crosses...so they used a.....what was the BIBLE'S word? (NO- I don't care about the clergy's, or the historians who believe them!)....Awwww, you GUESSED it! You're no fun!

For those of you a bit slower than IKH- "Stake".

Here is the hilarity of it all. I believe it probably was a cross. It has nothing to do with being part of "the pole crowd", lol.

You seem to constantly want to put the Society against Christendom. In reality the Society is part of the system they oppose. The Society is behind you though. Why not put your hands on the plow and move forward?

Wow!! I agree with you!

It's interesting that in their "Proclaimers" book under "cross", the Society is not even definitive in their position (at least in the Spanish version, which I have). They are a bit "wishy-washy", saying something like, "...there is evidence showing that Jesus possibly died on an upright pole rather than a cross."

JohnF

I thought someone might like "pole crowd"

Well I have "moved on", it's just that many in my family are still trapped, WOTS! They won't listen to me so I take that energy and try to help others see, the "truth" about the Society.

This is just one issue but i think it illustrates well how the Society for it's own purposes distorts the truth to make itself the Magistrum mysterium.

I know what you are saying. But, to me, going in to all these little points is never going to get somebody out of a religious system. Sometimes it just seems like debate for the point of debate.

What leads people out of the old way is a real relationship with God and His Son. Those things aren't found in the Society or Christendom or any location. They are found in the actual person Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, and leaving the carnal man behind to have Christ live in us. This is the truth. Whatever detracts from that is a distraction.