Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

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It is important to be clearly stated when does take place the "latter days" :
-- are they a period starting with "pentecosta" , so , during the first century ?
-- or are they separated from Jesus and the apostles time through a long period/time ?

I am posting this because I see there are opinions that the latter days took place in the first century , and from that time on is only a waiting time - that means God and Jesus are not involved with any "people" - or group of Christians of our days.

Firstly, it is Jesus who said that God's word is truth , and by this He stated/agreed that God's prophecy regarding Jesus waiting on the Right side of Father in Heaven until the enemies will be put as footstool for Jesus ... is truth !
Psalm 110
1. Jehovah saith unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, Until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
2. Jehovah will send forth the rod of thy strength out of Zion: Rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

In an anterior post I have shown from Jesus words that "his coming" means a time when He acts/works for fulfilling prophecies.
His waiting at Father's Right Hand means He/Jesus was waiting , or , non acting anything concerning the earth (He was ruling only in Heaven) except that He has been always with His brothers , comforting them. (Matt 28:20)

Another proof is a parable uttered by Jesus
Luke 20:
9. And he began to speak unto the people this parable: A man planted a vineyard, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into another country for a long time.

And another proof is found in Peter's speech at Acts 3:
".......the Christ who hath been appointed for you, even Jesus:
21. whom the heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, whereof God spake by the mouth of His holy prophets that have been from of old."

The expression " the heaven must receive" indicates the fact that Jesus will use His authority only in Heaven untill the appointed time (appointed by Father) will come to start using the authority on earth.

It is Father who decides for how long Jesus had to wait at his Father's right hand !
And also, in Bible there is no chronology given to point to when the permission for Christ to act on earth is given , because the lenght of the "wait time" is under Father's control !

As I have demostrated, around 1872 the "latters days" have start
because then took place on earth an action made by God through Jesus as His executor , and through the Holy Spirit : the feeding of His "people" with the "bread from Heaven" .

Regarding the literal events that came over the stone Temple at Jerusalem in the first century , it had nothing to do with the real Temple of God , wich was a spiritual one , founded by Jesus !
So , those acts involving literal Israel with their literal Temple were not the acomplishment/fulfillment "with spirit" of the prophecies .

Furthermore , if the prophecies regarding the latter days would be fulfilled then , that means all prophecies had to be acomplished that period.
BUT let us see an example !
let's take Hosea 11
1. When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
This prophecy has happen with Jesus - in the first century
Matthew 2
14. And he arose and took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt;
15. and was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt did I call my son.

Well , but Hosea does continues:
2. The more the prophets called them, the more they went from them: they sacrificed unto the Baalim, and burned incense to graven images.

Well , so , does Jesus acted as stated here ?
I think NOT ! (what do you think ? )

So, if Jesus did not acted as prophetised in all Hosea 11 , then who, and when does it fulfill that part ?
-- NOW , there must be another persons , in fact a group of persons who are "of Christ" , and they have to fulfill all Hosea 11 during the "latter days" , that is, not in the first century !

in Christ,
rus virgil

to be continued...

Hi Rus,

The rest of Hosea 11 suggests that Christians really screw up during the last days.

I am interested to hear what you will say next.

In Christ

abe

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Here I will try to focus further on prophecies regarding each one of the three periods : of prosperity, of famine/destruction and Judgement .

The fact is, different parts of the chronology belongs to different prophecies , and so, to different contexts..
And here we faces Jehovah's way of "speaking" : "now a way , then another way" , and also , we faces the fact that Jehovah sees the heart of His creature .

Also Jesus sees the heart, and he said (Matthew 16 )
25. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it.
So , those who came out of the world to become "Christian" did that for one of the two reasons .
Because of that , the Christians are of "two categories" . Both of them go together until the "day of judgement" , and during that period they are separated : those losing their life "for Jesus" will "find the life" and will enter into God's Kingdom , and the other group "will loose it", as Jesus said.
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Now , regarding the first period of seven times "of prosperity" , there are prophecies , but not many .
The prophecies regarding that period do focuses on the fact that God's people "leave God" , and to the fact that God send "prophets" to them , and also focuses on the "punishment" God will use against them.
Some exemples
-- Deuteronomy 32:5-18...
21. They made me jealous by what is no god
and angered me with their worthless idols.
I will make them envious by those who are not a people;
I will make them angry by a nation that has no understanding.

-- Deut. 28: (1-14), 15-68.
47. Because you did not serve the LORD your God joyfully and gladly in the time of prosperity,
48. therefore in hunger and thirst, in nakedness and dire poverty, you will serve the enemies the LORD sends against you. He will put an iron yoke on your neck until he has destroyed you.
49. The LORD will bring a nation against you from far away, from the ends of the earth, like an eagle swooping down, a nation whose language you will not understand,
50. a fierce-looking nation without respect for the old or pity for the young.
51. They will devour the young of your livestock and the crops of your land until you are destroyed. They will leave you no grain, new wine or oil, nor any calves of your herds or lambs of your flocks until you are ruined.

-- Hosea 8
1. SET THE trumpet to your lips! [The enemy] comes as a [great] vulture against the house of the Lord, because they have broken My covenant and transgressed against My law. A.B.

Indeed , Jehovah has accomplished this prophecy by announcing His people that the enemy ( the "man of lawlessness" ) will come over His people to oppress him and he (MOL ) will act/work against the "word" of God.
Here I invite you all to look for the W.T. from 1 October 1930 entitled "The Man of Lawlessness".
( when reading this subject, please separate the implications of the "1918 coming at the Temple" -wrong teaching from the real warning that the MOL will be used by Satan to attack the saints - the "House of God" - an action still future for that time! ).

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Now regarding the "seven times" of punishment and famine , there are a lot of prophecies , which shows different aspects
-- who are "the enemies" who invades "God's country" and the Temple
-- where they "come from" , what they think ,
-- what does "the saints" think , how they complain/lament and how they pray to Jehovah for forgiveness and help
-- God's promissions for helping them , comforting them , promising a right judgement, etc...
-- many prophecies regarding the enemy's actions and the time alloved for them, and their removing from God's country ,
-- a certain promision made by Jesus that "those days" will be shortened for the sake of the "chosen ones" / that means that the Messenger of the Covenant , Jesus Christ does come at the Temple some time "before" of the ending of the "seven times" of gentiles ...
-- promises and vows made by faithfull ones that they will obey the Father , their God, and never will leave Him and His ways again...

here I don't give examples because they are throughout the Bible...and will be discussed later.

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Regarding the "Day of Judgement" ,again, there are many prophecies and teachings in the Old Testament , Jesus teachings and parables, the apostles' letters and Revelation .

to be continued,

in Christ,
rus virgil

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Regarding the second period of "seven times" , which are in fact God's day of wrath against His own people, we find in Bible several prophecies .

-- 1. Jeremiah 25
11. And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.
12. And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, that I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith Jehovah, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans; and I will make it desolate for ever.

-- 2. Jeremiah 29
10. For thus saith Jehovah, After seventy years are accomplished for Babylon, I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place.

11. For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith Jehovah, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you hope in your latter end.

-- 3. Daniel 4
14. He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree, and cut off its branches, shake off its leaves, and scatter its fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from its branches.
15. Nevertheless leave the stump of its roots in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven: and let his portion be with the beasts in the grass of the earth:
16. let his heart be changed from man's, and let a beast's heart be given unto him;
and let seven times pass over him.

-- 4. Daniel 7
25 And he shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High; and he shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and half a time.

-- 5. Daniel 10
2. in the first year of his reign I, Daniel, understood by the books the number of the years whereof the word of Jehovah came to Jeremiah the prophet, for the accomplishing of the desolations of Jerusalem, even seventy years.

-- 6. Daniel 12
7. And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven,
and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and a half; and when they have made an end of breaking in pieces the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

-- 7. Zechariah 1
12. Then the angel of Jehovah answered and said,
O Jehovah of hosts, how long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah,
against which thou hast had indignation these threescore and ten years?

-- 8. Luke 21
24 .And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led captive into all the nations:
and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

-- 9. Romans 11
25. For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits,
that a hardening in part hath befallen Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in;
26. and so all Israel shall be saved: even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer; He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27. And this is my covenant unto them, When I shall take away their sins.

-- 10. Revelation 11
1. And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and one said, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

2. And the court which is without the temple leave without, and measure it not;
for it hath been given unto the nations: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

3. And I will give unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

--11. Revelation 11
9. And from among the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations do men look upon their dead bodies three days and a half, and suffer not their dead bodies to be laid in a tomb.

11. And after the three days and a half the breath of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them that beheld them.

-- 12. Revelation 12
6. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that there they may nourish her a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

14. And there were given to the woman the two wings of the great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness unto her place,
where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

-- 13. Revelation 13
4. and they worshipped the dragon, because he gave his authority unto the beast; and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? And who is able to war with him?

5. and there was given to him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and there was given to him authority to continue forty and two months.
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All the above quotes have to do with, or refer to , or were written regarding the same period of time.

But the Great Compositor of the prophecies have done several prophecies , from several points of view , because the truth is so deep, so profound or so high , and full of events ,that the humans languages could not retain all the knowledges and all the "jots" or "tittles" in only one prophecie !

And Jesus has promised that all these will be fulfilled
18." For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished."

=========

Now, Jesus call this period of "seven times of Gentiles" a Great Tribulation
Matthew 24
21. for then shall be great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be.

22. And except those days had been shortened, no flesh would have been saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

In fact, this operation of "cut short" of the tribulation was prophetised in/by the prophets :

Daniel 8:
13. Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said unto that certain one who spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the continual burnt-offering, and the transgression that maketh desolate, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14. And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred evenings and mornings; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

and Hosea 6
1. Come, and let us return unto Jehovah; for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.

2. After two days will he revive us: on the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live before him.

Let him who has God's Spirit think to these , and try to understand them !

to be continued,

in Christ,
rus virgil

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We see that God, in His prophecies , uses two ways of exprimation for the lenght of time when the "MOL" reigns in Temple :
-- "seven times"
and
-- "three times and half time" .

With the "seven times" also correspond "2520 days"

and with the "three times and half time" correspond "1260 days" , "forty two months" and "three days and half"

In fact, all of these exprimation are symbolic , they do not means litterally 3 1/2 days or years or months, nor 7 years or days ... .
This is because it is Jehovah , the Master of time who decided the real lenght of 70 years for that period !

In Bible we find exprimed a reason for why did Jehovah used these two kind of measurement . By mouth of Jeremiah , He said
Jeremiah 16
18. And first I will recompense their iniquity and their sin double, because they have polluted my land with the carcasses of their detestable things, and have filled mine inheritance with their abominations.
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Knowing that all these "exprimations of periods" refer to a lenght of 70 years , all these are counted from the time when the MOL entered in position of "leaders" in Temple .

That happened in 8 January 1942 .

From that time is to be counted both "seven times" and "three times and half" .

So, the 70 years of domination of the MOL in Temple are to be ended in 2012.

But we have Jesus promission that the Great Tribulation will be shortened !
How much ?
It was promised to Daniel the following :
Daniel 8
14. And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred evenings and mornings; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

The cleaning of the sanctuary has to start when the "2300 evenings and mornings" are fulfilled .
If "2520 days" means in reality 70 years, by using the math we find that
the "2300 days" means 63 years and 9 months and 18 days .

That means that from January 1942 adding the result we arrive to the month of October 2005 .

This is the time when from His high- enthroned position , Jesus Christ has begun to clean the Temple !

That doesn't mean that the MOL was overthrown that time , because the "70 years of Babylon" are not finished yet !
It means that Jesus have begun the action of "gathering the chosen ones" (Matthew 24:31 ). And that means/implies that He is giving light , or new understandings from Father's word to His intimates , and that helped them to become free from MOL's slavery , and gave to them the posibility to obey Father's command in Zechariah 2
7. Ho Zion, escape, thou that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon.
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The "day of judgement" lasts for a day , that is a day from the seven days/times , that is 10 years .
So, the period of Judgement is from October 2005 untill (October) 2015 .

Furthermore , may be found the following periods of time from Daniel 12
11. And from the time that the continual burnt-offering shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up,
there shall be a thousand and two hundred and ninety days.

12. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

The "1290 days" are ending in summer 2013 .
The "1335 days" are ending in 2016 .

Please look to the work/writing of bro. Sas where were these originally explained :
http://www.grupcaleasfanta.ro/admin/sec18-2.html

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Beware !
Jehovah has not indicate the literal day, minutes and seconds, therefore do not keep your eyes on (your) watch !
BUT pray that your eyes be open as to can understand how He is fulfilling His own prophecies within His people !

Jesus has good advices for each of us : Rev. 3
18. I counsel thee to buy of me gold refined by fire, that thou mayest become rich; and white garments, that thou mayest clothe thyself, and that the shame of thy nakedness be not made manifest;
and eyesalve to anoint thine eyes, that thou mayest see.

to be continued..

in Christ,
rus virgil

Quote:
As in the previous post we have seen , both Russell and Rutherford have correctly appreciated the Jesus sacrifice , but those who came after Rutherford death - in 1942 - have worked against the "sacrifice" , and that identify them as "oposers of truth"
Look ! a new period , when the oposers of truth came/arose to "govern" over God's people , and fighting against the saints !

We see : from 1872 till 1942 there were 70 years , when God gave food to his own
and in 1942 a new period of "seven times" have begun" (surely, of famine )
the second "seven times" have to be equal with the first ones , so they last untill 2012.

I looked for your explanation of how Russell and Rutherford "correctly appreciated Jesus' sacrifice" - is this it? >>>

Quote:
The fact is that Russell and Rutherford have appreciated this Bread from heaven and they did not taught others to sin wilfully , but to avoid sin .

What makes it "fact"?

Rutherford's the one who declared the 'door to the heavenly calling' was closed. He single-handedly shut out any other Jehovah's Witnesses who were seeking Christ as their King, denying them the very "bread of life" in the memorial observance of Christ's death, his blood/wine and his flesh/bread. In your line of thinking then, the evil weeds took control earlier than 1942, which might mess with your(or sas') chronology a bit.

It is commonly stated that Rutherford closed the heavenly calling in 1935 as heaven was running out of room. This is only partially correct. With the number of Jehovah's Witnesses reaching 50,000 Rutherford had to close the calling for the 144,000, as the Bible shows tens of thousands of early Christians were also of the little flock. However, Russell had already explained that the Great Crowd was also heavenly, so an unlimited number of Witnesses could still go to heaven, whilst the 'millions now living who will never die' referred to 'worldly people' surviving into the paradise earth.

It appears that moving the Great Crowd to earth was to support Rutherford's concept of narrow salvation. The most effective way to rapidly grow Watchtower followers was making survival at Armageddon contingent on being one of Jehovah's Witnesses. With anointed Jehovah's Witnesses going to heaven and earthly Armageddon survivors being a Great Crowd of Jehovah's Witnesses, the only option for worldly people became eternal destruction. This concept worked; between 1935 and 1975 the Watchtower Society was one of the fastest growing religions on earth. From JWfacts http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/great-...-sheep.php

Following his failed 1925 prophecy Rutherford embarked on a dramatic overhaul of Watchtower doctrine, distancing his followers from Russell. Almost all of Russell's time prophecy predictions were discarded. There was a name change for Watchtower followers from Bible Students to Jehovah's Witnesses. Furthermore, it was stated that between 1918 and 1919 Jesus cleansed the Watchtower Society, in effect implying that the time of Russell was one of uncleanness, and it was under himself that Jesus chose the Organization as his sole provision for salvation. He distanced his followers from other Christians by stating as wrong and pagan most of Christendom's symbols and holidays. Finally, the great crowd was brought to earth to become the sole survivors of Armageddon. These changes made it simple to introduce a concept of 'narrow salvation', the concept that only a handful of the world were deserving salvation. Conveniently, survivors all had to belong to one earthly Organization, the Watchtower Society. God was now prepared to kill billions of people, most that have never even heard of the Watchtower Organization. From JWfacts http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/1925.php

Rutherford sure sounds like an "opposer of truth" to me!

:scratchhead:

Willa,

I am not a defender of certain men,
I have to be one to "find God true" .
As Christian, I believe what Jesus said: "Your word is truth".
And I know also, Jesus whom I follow is totally under the Father and His will, so nothing He does from himself !

I know partially the history of WTS , BUT I trust God Knows it better !
And He also is the ONE who knows the heart of those living then and now !

I base my faith in His word , even expressed it by prophets or by His Son and his apostles.

Jehovah is righteous and merciful.

He declared He feeded His people / after brought them out from Egypt/ with "bread from heaven"
The bread from heaven does not contain understandings/light from prophecies
The bread from heaven means things related to Jesus sacrifice , what does it cover( Heb. 4:15 ) and what does not cover (Heb. 10:26 )

Indeed , all of them /both wheat and weeds/ have made unfounded suppositions (of prophecies and chronology)and believed them !

Due to the fact that God is both righteous and merciful , He doesn't count this as "wilfull sin" , but is a "sin"
and rightly He has decided to punish them (as people) for a pre-determined time, by letting "the nations" to 'trample" them and the worship to Jehovah !

As for myself, I find YHWH right ! Do you ?

-- regarding the "little flock" and "great multitude" I didn't speak yet in my posts ,it will follow.

In Christ,
rus virgil

rus virgil Wrote:

Jesus has good advices for each of us : Rev. 3
18. I counsel thee to buy of me gold refined by fire, that thou mayest become rich; and white garments, that thou mayest clothe thyself, and that the shame of thy nakedness be not made manifest;
and eyesalve to anoint thine eyes, that thou mayest see.

in Christ,
rus virgil

Rus,

If you continue the scripture above Jesus Christ said this:

Revelation 3:19
â€œâ€˜All those for whom I have affection I reprove and discipline. Therefore be zealous and repent. 20 Look! I am standing at the door and knocking. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into his [house] and take the evening meal with him and he with me.

I think this is very much in line with Jesus Christ cleansing the temple.

Scriptures indicate that the Christian Temple will be profaned in a reprehensible way immediately before Jesus Christ returns.

There will be people who continue to celebrate the memorial with those who profaned the temple. They are eating the emblems and drinking the wine with the drunkards. A situation that righteous Christians should be aware of.

Jesus Christ shows that an alternative to eating and drinking with the drunkards will be made possible:

If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into his [house] [b]and take the evening meal with him and he with me

Notice also that these are the ones who Jesus Christ has affection for and disciplines.

With the memorial happening in two weeks this is something that every Christian should think about very carefully.

He IS cleansing the temple!

In Christ

abe

Taking in the evening meal with Christ, reminds me of these verses...

Gen28:12
And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

13. And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed.

If we are His seed, then we will be fed from Christ personally and under the protection of our Father the Most High

Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds! Luke 12:24

Job 38:41 "Who prepares for the raven its nourishment When its young cry to God And wander about without food?

Psalm 5:11 But let all who take refuge in You be glad, Let them ever sing for joy; And may You shelter them, That those who love Your name may exult in You.

4. He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler. ps.91:4

Psalm 91:1-2
1. He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.

2. I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.
When you trust in and rely on our Heavenly Father, His holy angels defend and preserve you. Evil cannot conquer them. When necessary, they will turn your steps out of the way of danger.

3. Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.

4. He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.

5. Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;

6. Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.

7. A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.

8. Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.

9. Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;

Psalm 34:22 The LORD redeems the soul of His servants, And none of those who take refuge in Him will be condemned.

Deuteronomy 32:11 "Like an eagle that stirs up its nest, That hovers over its young, He spread His wings and caught them, He carried them on His pinions.

"You are the light of the world, the flame of love that purifies whatever stands in the way of complete oneness with GOD."

Psalm 91:4

4. He will cover you with his feathers,
and under his wings you will find refuge;
his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.

to Ezekiel: "A great eagle with great wings and long pinions (the King James Version "longwinged"), full of feathers, which had divers colors, came unto Lebanon, and took the top of the cedar" (Ezek 17:3).

The one on top of everything is the Most High God Yahweh

The feminine form ('ebhrah) is used of the wings of the dove (Ps 68:13), of the ostrich (Job 39:13) and of the eagle (Dt 32:11).

(Ps 91:4) it stands in a figurative expression for the protective care of Yahweh, which is bestowed on those that trust in Him.

:heartbeat:
New Heart

ablebodiedman Wrote:

With the memorial happening in two weeks this is something that every Christian should think about very carefully.

He IS cleansing the temple!

I would like to elaborate on this statement made in the post above.

Jesus Christ is cleansing the temple however, this is happening immediately before his return.

The temple is actually being rebuilt by Jesus Christ at the same time as the profaned temple is spiritually abandoned to the drunkards who have allowed it to be profaned.

It is very similar to what happened in the first century.

The new rebuilt temple existed before the old temple buildings were actually destroyed.

The desolation of the modern day temple is imminent however, at the same time it is also slowly being rebuilt.

Consider what it says in Isaiah chapter 66 (an end time prophecy).

Isaiah 66
6 There is a sound of uproar out of the city, a sound out of the temple! It is the sound of Jehovah repaying what is deserved to his enemies.
7 Before she began to come into labor pains she gave birth. Before birth pangs could come to her, she even gave deliverance to a male child. 8 Who has heard of a thing like this? Who has seen things like these? Will a land be brought forth with labor pains in one day? Or will a nation be born at one time? For Zion has come into labor pains as well as given birth to her sons.

A profaned Christian Temple being judged while at the same time Zion has already given birth to her sons.

Please consider who the Apostle Paul might be thanking after explaining how the Christian Temple would be undermined by a man of lawlessness immediately before Jesus Christ returns:

2nd Thessalonians 2:13
However, we are obligated to thank God always for YOU, brothers loved by Jehovah, because God selected YOU from [the] beginning for salvation by sanctifying YOU with spirit and by YOUR faith in the truth. 14 To this very destiny he called YOU through the good news we declare, for the purpose of acquiring the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

These people will see how the temple has been profaned by a "man of lawlessness".

Please understand why it is important to know who the man of lawlessness is and how he profanes the temple.

I invite anyone who is a Jehovah's Witness or has family or loved ones who are Jehovah's Witnesses to watch the video in my signature:

The Unforgivable Sin.

In Christ

abe

ablebodiedman Wrote:

With the memorial happening in two weeks this is something that every Christian should think about very carefully.

He IS cleansing the temple!

Now if the elaborated post above is understood I would like to introduce a scripture concerning the rebuilding of the temple and ask you to contemplate what: "the plowman overtaking the harvester" might now mean.

Amos 9:11-13
And its ruins I shall raise up, and I shall certainly build it up as in the days of long ago, 12 to the end that they may take possession of what is left remaining of EÂ´dom, and all the nations upon whom my name has been called,â€™ is the utterance of Jehovah, who is doing this.
13 â€œâ€˜Look! There are days coming,â€™ is the utterance of Jehovah, â€˜and the plowman will actually overtake the harvester, and the treader of grapes, the carrier of the seed; and the mountains must drip with sweet wine, and the very hills will all find themselves melting.

If the Christian Temple will be profaned and undermined immediately before Jesus Christ returns then how will the temple be; "built up as in the days of long ago".

Something different is going to have to happen.

It will have to be built up again!

This will start to happen right under everyones noses.

the plowman will actually overtake the harvester

Look! There are days coming!

Are those days here?

In Christ

abe

ablebodiedman Wrote:

Dear bro. Able,

it is very clear that the Temple is "profaned" , because the man of lawlessness is reigning already for more than 68 years as "god' in Temple , and his wickedness has "passed continually" over all , including the "people of saints"
as the prophet Nahum 3 said :
19There is no healing of thy bruise; thy wound is grievous: all that hear the bruit of thee shall clap the hands over thee:
for upon whom hath not thy wickedness passed continually?

The wickedness of the MoL have been expressed through the teachings he have given , "Biblical" explanation compared by God with "wormwood"
Jeremiah 9:
15. Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel;
Behold, I will feed them, even this people, with wormwood, and give them water of gall to drink.

Those "poor in spirit" at this time do conscientise that they are "unclean" and they are looking for God , as was prophetised
Jeremiah 31
22. How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter?
for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man.

that is, the members of "God's woman" will say :
(Jeremiah 3:22 Return, ye backsliding children, and I will heal your backslidings.)
Behold, we come unto thee; for thou art the LORD our God.

By Ezekiel God has foretold the action of cleansing
Ezekiel 36
24. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

25. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

The clear water is the truth of God's word , that is, the light or understanding come from God's Spirit

" And the Spirit and the bride say, Come."

The Spirit is teaching directly the members of the "bride" .

Indeed , the Temple means living creatures in whom God's Spirit dwells
these creatures must cleanse themselves , that is , they must walk on the way of obeying all the commandments of God, and clean their heart.

7 - 8 years back I thought that the 'children of God" will take their stand for Jehovah and His Christ immediately , and will leave the "daughter of Babylon" at once , but I see Jehovah is allowing time for these actions .

There are old peoples within the Society who cannot "come out" literally until God will release them also phisically , and God knows that ! He knows their heart !

He has foretold that a great deliverance is coming , as in the time when Jehovah has brought out his people from Egypt
Micah 7
15 As in the days of thy coming forth out of the land of Egypt will I show unto them marvellous things.

16 The nations shall see and be ashamed of all their might; they shall lay their hand upon their mouth; their ears shall be deaf.

Furthermore , the "woman who compass a man" , that is, those who return to their God , are saying :
18. Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth over the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in lovingkindness.

19. He will again have compassion upon us; he will tread our iniquities under foot; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.

20. Thou wilt perform the truth to Jacob, and the lovingkindness to Abraham, which thou hast sworn unto our fathers from the days of old.

In short time is expected that the present Pharaoh (the MOL ) will intreprinds a such action against the sons of Jacob as the old pharaoh did ,
and will find his end in the "Red Sea" .

The same action is described in Ezekiel 39:1-8.

when that will happen , Jacob's sons held literally "captive" will have the posibility to be separed by all "drunkards" in a litteral way.

in Christ,
rus virgil

Thank you New Heart for presenting scripture quotes.

Christian love and appreciation,

gogh

rus virgil Wrote:

9. "Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son." 2 John.

Â Â God's spirit lead us to see the importance given by Jehovah Himself to Christ's teaching !
Â Â But first , what is that teaching ?
Â Â -- Jesus answered to us :"16. Jesus answered, "My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me."
Â Â Again we see , apostle John wrote leaded by spirit :
17. "For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. "
Â Â Jesus Himself said regarding to all His Father word (including the written word in the old t. ) :17. "Sanctify them by the truth; [b]your word is truth. " John 17.

The question is : if God's word in O.T. is truth , why ap. John said "the truth came through Jesus.." ?

As we can see , the knowledge/teaching God sent through His Son has priority.

Â Â Not Jesus , nor ap. John decided that , but Jehovah Himself !
Let us hear His voice :
5."While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!" Matt.17

Now , what is to be understood through the expression "teaching of Christ" (only a part of what He preached)?Â Â Let Him answer to us :

20. "and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

We are today under the same Jesus's commandment !

Apostle Paul agrees with this priority gave by Jehovah to the teaching of Christ: 1. "In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2. but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe......" Hebrews 1.
also: "24. to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

25. See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? Hebrews 12.

It has been prophecied that in the "latter days" there will be a certain action inside God's people :

10. It grew until it reached the host of the heavens, and it threw some of the starry host down to the earth and trampled on them. 11. It set itself up to be as great as the Prince of the host; it took away the daily sacrifice from him, and the place of his sanctuary was brought low. 12. Because of rebellion, the host of the saints [a] and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.

13.Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, "How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilledâ€”the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host that will be trampled underfoot?"

14 He said to me, "It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated."Â Â Daniel 8.

As we can see ,the truth is thrown down during the 2300 evenings and mornings. God's promise is , "then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated."
The action of reconsacrating take placeÂ Â when Jesus is present at the Temple ! When Jesus begins his action , He finds "the truth"-the correct understanding of His teaching-- down !
So He have to re-put His teaching to the place decided by Jehovah Himself!
It is written at Acts 3:21 : 21."He must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets."

When Jesus starts his second presence , He does like that :
20. "Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me." Rev.3.
Also in Luke 12 :
37. "It will be good for those servants whose master finds them watching when he comes. I tell you the truth, he will dress himself to serve, will have them recline at the table and will come and wait on them. "

What do you think He will serve at the table to those watching when He come ?
-- Exactly the correct understanding of "the teaching of Christ" !

Now , the further question is :Â Â What does Christ teach us regarding the Heavenly Kingdom , when was it set in Heaven, when was Satan thrown down from Heaven , when was Jesus enthroned , when get fullfiled Psalm 110:1 , etc... ?
Let us consider Jesus words:"20.and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
If Jesus was always with His followers , what does his second presence mean ? Really started it in 1914 ?

Let all of us think to that !

With love in Christ , r.v.

Jehovah God himself has decided to send through His beloved Son the most important knowledge to us (on earth).

For this reason "the teaching of Christ" was called "truth" by John in his gospel , chapter 1 vers. 17.
17. For the law was given through Moses;
grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Those having FAITH in Jesus words (and teaching) will come to understand many other Biblical truths and specially will receive a correct insight in God's prophecies .

Be blessed all of you who continue in the teaching of Christ,
because you have both the Father and the Son !

in Christ,
rus virgil

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